Lakers/Celtics - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Lakers/Celtics

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Lakers/Celtics

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:41 pm

DaShiz23 wrote:The German remark was a complete joke, and probably not even funny.


It was hard to tell if you were joking, but it wasn't in good form to say, at least from where I sit.

DaShiz23 wrote:The whole MJ to Kobe thing is everywhere, unless you live under a rock, you have seen it on TV and in print and this thread.


I'm not denying the comparisons made by the media and some fans about Kobe-to-MJ; they've been there ever since the late 90's or earlier. Our sports culture has an obsession with comparing one current great player to another after all, but I'd like to think most fans are smart enough to 1) not make such a comparison and 2) to not weigh down on the subject like it's a win-or-lose struggle. I'm in the school of thought that MJ was the greatest to ever play, but does that knock down anything on Kobe has accomplished as a player in goals and in skill set? Well, what about the other pantheon of greats, such as Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, just naming a few. They're all different players in varying degrees. Get on with it.

DaShiz23 wrote:Me having disgust for Kobe and having to deal with people wrongly putting him upon a pedestal has nothing to do with being a Bulls fan. The guy was a jerk and still is one ever since his draft day. There are just too many examples to list, and I laugh when I see all these spots trying to restore his image. ESPN specials from his house with his wife in every shot, him bringing his two children to the after game press conferences. I may be going too far, but in my book, he still needs to earn the greatness/greatest tag, and by no means has he.


It's generally true that we behold Kobe in L.A. the same way San Franciscans do for Barry Bonds, but the fact of the matter is how players compose themselves on/off the court/field is none of my business. I met Kobe a few years ago. Nice guy and sometimes the media will be like vultures at times and exaggerate things. Kobe could very well be a jerk, but that's not my arena to judge and the same goes for every player.

DaShiz23 wrote:The table was set for his team this year, with what I mentioned before, and he flat out did not even come close to playing like a great player. He b!tched and moaned for better players, got what he wanted, and when things didn't go his way, he kicked and screamed and cried to these guys. Why doesn't he just shut up, work with the players in practice, and get it done.
I don't know about anyone else, but I do not see how anyone who wasn't a Laker fan before his arrival, could be close to one since his arrival.


Personally, I don't forgive or tolerate how Kobe handled his trade requests in having to go in public for one; that's not acceptable. That was a slap in the face and then some for the kind of loyalty the Lakers fans have given in general to him especially. (That's like me saying now that I don't forgive Cristiano Ronaldo for wanting to go to Real Madrid for the money, but that's another story) However, I think he claimed back some forgiveness among Laker fans in general because he made inroads to improving as a team player and more importantly, a team leader.

I think it's ignorant to go as far as to say that Kobe didn't "work with the players in practice". I'm sure he does (unless you've snuck into practice and noticed something we otherwise wouldn't) and whether it's by his leadership or not, because the fact of the matter is, this team was rubbish to begin with. The end result is the players improved their individual play and their team play as a whole; their playoff run even though mired by disappointment in the Finals is proof of such improvement.
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Lakers/Celtics

Postby DaShiz23 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:07 pm

I appreciate your views, and coming from a Laker fan, they are easier for you to justify. My older brother is a long time Laker fan (we were born in Huntington Beach, moved to South Bend when I was 2), so I have had these arguments for what seems like forever. He does concede though as to Kobe feeling like he deserves everything, and his 'mimicking' of Jordan, especially after the Shaq fiasco, is quite funny. I also mentioned that I feel the Lakers are pretty good, and should be for at least a few more years. If you disect their team, they should be even better than they are. They have all of the pieces in place. Unselfish points guards, scoring 2 guard, versatile 3 man, decent length to rebound and defend, good spot-up shooters, and a couple of energy guys. And of course, even when everything is set, things do not go right. That is when Kobe needed to hunker down and carry his team, not belittle them. That flat out didn't happen. Putting all of the things surrounding Kobe aside (draft day issue, Shaq, trade demands, personal issues, ....), I do not see him capable of carrying a team when a playoff series is at stake. Sure, he can do it on Jan.3rd or whatever against teams who do not care, but not in the playoffs, with everyone only having to worry about him (w/o shaq, for example). All of those great players you mentioned, and more (even LeBron) were and are capable of that.
Again, my views, just as yours, are somewhat biased, but most people who are not on either extreme, will say he is a very unlikable guy. The basketball part is still undecided, and he may very well change my opinion, but I'm not rooting for it.
Image
DaShiz23
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 3412
(Past Year: 67)
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Don't call it a comeback.

Re: Lakers/Celtics

Postby Phatferd » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:18 pm

DaShiz23 wrote:I appreciate your views, and coming from a Laker fan, they are easier for you to justify. My older brother is a long time Laker fan (we were born in Huntington Beach, moved to South Bend when I was 2), so I have had these arguments for what seems like forever. He does concede though as to Kobe feeling like he deserves everything, and his 'mimicking' of Jordan, especially after the Shaq fiasco, is quite funny. I also mentioned that I feel the Lakers are pretty good, and should be for at least a few more years. If you disect their team, they should be even better than they are. They have all of the pieces in place. Unselfish points guards, scoring 2 guard, versatile 3 man, decent length to rebound and defend, good spot-up shooters, and a couple of energy guys. And of course, even when everything is set, things do not go right. That is when Kobe needed to hunker down and carry his team, not belittle them. That flat out didn't happen. Putting all of the things surrounding Kobe aside (draft day issue, Shaq, trade demands, personal issues, ....), I do not see him capable of carrying a team when a playoff series is at stake. Sure, he can do it on Jan.3rd or whatever against teams who do not care, but not in the playoffs, with everyone only having to worry about him (w/o shaq, for example). All of those great players you mentioned, and more (even LeBron) were and are capable of that.
Again, my views, just as yours, are somewhat biased, but most people who are not on either extreme, will say he is a very unlikable guy. The basketball part is still undecided, and he may very well change my opinion, but I'm not rooting for it.


They are missing the two most important things in my opinion. A big body who can play defense and defend opponents with scoring bigs. Bynum is this guy, but he was out. Also, they are missing experience.
You have no frame of reference, Donny. You're like a child who walks into the middle of a movie...
Phatferd
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4058
Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Highway 10

Previous

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Oct. 21
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

San Francisco at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact