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Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

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Re: Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

Postby Yoda » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:24 am

AllDay wrote:Who cares where he was drafted. The question now is what will he do in the 2nd half?


Absolutely correct except the people who are expecting big things are the ones who have invested so much in him like yourself. I think all counter arguments are necessary since there are a lot of less experienced managers looking at these posts when making their decisions.

If I had to bet then I think he will have mixed results for the rest of the season. You'll see flashes of dominance but not consistency.
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Re: Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

Postby chaindog35 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:46 am

Tommy John wrote:By the way, I read that Liriano has gone back to his old arm slot which may help him find what he has been missing. I don't know what this will do to his ability to stay healthy. He seemed to have a pretty labor intensive delivery which doesn't seem to bode well for staying healthy in the long run, especially as a starter, but going back to what he is comfortable with may help him get back to where he was sooner than later. I don't think he will be as dominant as he was because few in the history of baseball sustain numbers like that. I think he will be a solid #2 this season, the Twins can compete, and they can't keep him down if he finds his rhythm.


TJ, from what I've read the change in his arm slot has really helped his control, and his success pitching in general. I think Liriano can definitely help fantasy teams this year, but I also expect the twins to keep him on a tight pitch count. I also expect them to limit his innings down, if they find themselves out of the playoff race. To summarize, he's a guy I'm buying, if I can get him off the WW, but I'm not depending on him as one of my top guys. I take a very similar approach to Rich Harden, but for different and obvious reasons.
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Re: Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

Postby Inukchuk » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:44 pm

AllDay wrote:
Inukchuk wrote:So are you contending that there is no way your team would be better with an active player for the first half of the season rather than Liriano, who has yet to contribute anything of value?


...and exactly how would he be assurred of drafting a player who contributes rather than some other mid-round middle of the road player who didn't do squat?

He can't. His team is reflective of how accurate his player evaluations were - and it sounds to me like he did a decent job.


You didn't answer my question correctly. I didn't ask if Liriano was the best option in the 14th round of his draft. I asked if he was contending that there was no way his team would have been better at this point with someone else. It was rhetorical. Obviously his team would be better if he had one of any number of productive guys that were drafted after he grabbed Liriano. He said his team was in second (at the time) with Liriano riding pine, and I simply said it could have been better with someone else in that spot instead.

As far as the second half goes, that remains to be seen. It's my opinion that Liriano remains a risk, and I wouldn't go out of my way to try to acquire him. Obviously, others feel differently and I wish them (and Liriano) the best of luck.


Is evrerybody who drafted Smoltz and idiot? How about Rollins - everybody should have seen that coming. Everyonre should have known David Ortiz was done.


Obviously not. That's a stupid thing to ascertain. But you're comparing apples to oranges there. Liriano was much more of an injury risk than Smoltz, Rollins, and Ortiz. It doesn't take some magical predictive skill to reason that Liriano may get hurt again. It takes nothing more than common sense. Elbow trouble + poor mechanics = injury risk.

The red flags for the three you mentioned were not nearly as glaring as Liriano's.

Also, there seems to be a bit of a misguided train of thought that everyone who is pondering Liriano's 2nd half drafted him and has kept him on their rosters the entire year.


In my reply to poo holes, that was exactly the case.

[/quote]Who cares where he was drafted. The question now is what will he do in the 2nd half?[/quote]

This is, of course, what is relevant now. I suppose that if you have a roster spot, he's a decent speculative pick up. I wouldn't drop a contributing player for him, but if you have a black hole on your roster, you could do worse...
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Re: Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

Postby AllDay » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:26 pm

Yoda wrote:
AllDay wrote:Who cares where he was drafted. The question now is what will he do in the 2nd half?


Absolutely correct except the people who are expecting big things are the ones who have invested so much in him like yourself. I think all counter arguments are necessary since there are a lot of less experienced managers looking at these posts when making their decisions.

If I had to bet then I think he will have mixed results for the rest of the season. You'll see flashes of dominance but not consistency.


I have invested nothing more than a FA pick-up on him.

Sounds like you are already changing your tune on Liriano. He wasn't going to contribute in 0'8 according to your claims since '[07 - now we can expect 'flasheds of brilliance'.

Next I suppose you will ask 'Can't I just finish my waffle'?
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Re: Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

Postby AllDay » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:42 pm

Inukchuk wrote:
Is evrerybody who drafted Smoltz and idiot? How about Rollins - everybody should have seen that coming. Everyonre should have known David Ortiz was done.


Obviously not. That's a stupid thing to ascertain. But you're comparing apples to oranges there. Liriano was much more of an injury risk than Smoltz, Rollins, and Ortiz. It doesn't take some magical predictive skill to reason that Liriano may get hurt again. It takes nothing more than common sense. Elbow trouble + poor mechanics = injury risk.

The red flags for the three you mentioned were not nearly as glaring as Liriano's.


I would disagree, and what a shocker - Liriano is still healthy.

Ortiz has had chronic injury problems during his career. This is why the Twins traded him away - he could never stay healthy. A few good years in Boston were flukey and he was long overdue to return to his injury prone ways.

Smoltz went to the bullpen because of his chronically sore shoulder. His return to the rotation was only going to ensure those arm woes crept up once again - and his advanced age was a glaring beacon of caution to an astute fantasy manager.

Both those guys should have had the reddest of red flags cautioning owners not to draft them.

Rollins was simply over-rated. We were told by many Cafe posters it was Reyes who was over-rated when in fact it was Jimmy Rollins who was over valued and was due for an injury. It is the law of averages and that red flag should have been visible for miles.

This type of logic can be applied to many players. It is rare to have a 'perfect draft' where every player contributes above any other selection that could have been made at that point in the draft. It is your overall player evaluation that counts.
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Wrong Forum!

Postby WebHamster » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:12 am

Enough. And please ... do not feed the Webhamster! Thank you.
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