Francisco Liriano??????? what up?????

[AllDay]

How do you know if he is ready? String together a few dominant starts like he has. He's probably ready to be tested.

You are taking something I said out of context. Minor league performance does matter but not for someone like Liriano who already graduated AAA years ago. If you can't see the difference between what I am saying in regards to minor league performance between someone who's had MLB success such as Liriano versus someone who hasn't then I do not know what else to tell you.

And yes, when I posted that he was getting bombed, he in fact was getting bombed every other start. Since then he went back to his old delivery which caused his arm to blow out half way through the season. We'll see at the end of the season what happens.

Here is your quote:

The problem is, it really doesn't matter how he looks in the minors. Even crappy pitchers can dominate AAA hitters on a regular basis only to get bombed when they get called up.

So now suddenly it matters how he looks in the minors? Backpeddle much?

Yeah you are right. Since he is dominating AAA, that means he will do the same when he is called up right? WTF was I thinking?

Hey you can be angry at me all you want but you should really be angry at yourself for wasting a mid round pick on Liriano this year. Sigh....

You obviously haven't been thinking based on your comments so far.

I love how you idiots can spend most of your life in a forum like this and still not know a thing about baseball.

I'm not angry at you, I think you are an idiot. Maybe next year you will learn something in the cafe and you won't spend your first round pick on Pedro Martinez.

[bigken117]

You obviously haven't been thinking based on your comments so far.

Mod Edit Insulting everyone at the Cafe

I'm not angry at you, Mod Edit personal insults...learn something in the cafe and you won't spend your first round pick on Pedro Martinez.

[bigken117]

How do you know if he is ready? String together a few dominant starts like he has. He's probably ready to be tested.

You are taking something I said out of context. Minor league performance does matter but not for someone like Liriano who already graduated AAA years ago. If you can't see the difference between what I am saying in regards to minor league performance between someone who's had MLB success such as Liriano versus someone who hasn't then I do not know what else to tell you.

And yes, when I posted that he was getting bombed, he in fact was getting bombed every other start. Since then he went back to his old delivery which caused his arm to blow out half way through the season. We'll see at the end of the season what happens.

Here is your quote:

The problem is, it really doesn't matter how he looks in the minors. Even crappy pitchers can dominate AAA hitters on a regular basis only to get bombed when they get called up.

So now suddenly it matters how he looks in the minors? Backpeddle much?

Yeah you are right. Since he is dominating AAA, that means he will do the same when he is called up right? WTF was I thinking?

Hey you can be angry at me all you want but you should really be angry at yourself for wasting a mid round pick on Liriano this year. Sigh...

I wasted a midround pick (14th) on him and this morning I am sitting in 2nd place 1.5 points behind first.

[Inukchuk]

I wasted a midround pick (14th) on him and this morning I am sitting in 2nd place 1.5 points behind first.

Just imagine though, you'd actually most likely be in first if instead of wasting that pick on Liriano, you grabbed a guy like Hamilton, Soto, or McGowan (all 14th round ADPs) instead. I believe you just proved Yoda's point.

[poo holes]

I wasted a midround pick (14th) on him and this morning I am sitting in 2nd place 1.5 points behind first.

Just imagine though, you'd actually most likely be in first if instead of wasting that pick on Liriano, you grabbed a guy like Hamilton, Soto, or McGowan (all 14th round ADPs) instead. I believe you just proved Yoda's point.

My fault for not posting my roster. McGowan, who I recently dropped and Soto were drafted and are/were on my roster. Hamilton went 12th overall, which at the time I thought was a reach. I was able to add E. Volquez in the 16th. Now, how have I proved Yodas point?

Starting Pitchers:

D. Haren
E. Volquez
M.Cain
C. Billingsley
C. Lee WW Pickup
S. Baker WW Pickup
MCGowan dropped him and P/U J. Johnson


If you need help in a category then perhaps it would be a wasted roster spot. Although, in my case I was able to stay w/in striking disatnce...and in some occasions be in first place with Liriano "wasting" a roster spot.

[Inukchuk]

So are you contending that there is no way your team would be better with an active player for the first half of the season rather than Liriano, who has yet to contribute anything of value?

[Tommy John]

These arguments get old. I hate getting on here in hopes of reading some insightful thoughts only to find an online pissing contest that never ends. This is fantasy baseball, it means nothing, no one knows who you are, no one watches you on T.V., you are not a superhero for being able to research and decifer statistics. This is a great site with a lot of smart baseball enthusiasts, there is always room for comedians and smart allecs alike but these arguments, in my opinion, consume the brilliance of this site. It is not a matter of pride, no one knows who you are, you are a name, an alias. You can say anything at anytime to anyone without any repercutions, or personal responsibility. This means nothing, it is just a hobby us ex-athletes or sport enthusiasts want to enjoy. Stuff like this ruins it for everyone else.

If there is some sort of crazy reply to this, I am not wanting to extend this conversation from my end any further. If I mispelled something, fire away, but I think my point is valid.

By the way, I read that Liriano has gone back to his old arm slot which may help him find what he has been missing. I don't know what this will do to his ability to stay healthy. He seemed to have a pretty labor intensive delivery which doesn't seem to bode well for staying healthy in the long run, especially as a starter, but going back to what he is comfortable with may help him get back to where he was sooner than later. I don't think he will be as dominant as he was because few in the history of baseball sustain numbers like that. I think he will be a solid #2 this season, the Twins can compete, and they can't keep him down if he finds his rhythm.

[Inukchuk]

...and stay off his lawn too, ya damn kids!

I love the fact that there are heated debates over guys. It really helps understand why certain types of owners think the way they do. If all you see is a pissing contest, sorry. What I see in this thread is an example of 2 very different management strategies: playing it safe vs boom or bust guys. I tend to be one of the former, and I've learned quite a bit about the other camp which is quite helpful to me.

Sure, there are stupid fights (just check the 'Bedard out after 5 innings' thread...good stuff), but if you get enough fantasy managers together, you're going to get disagreements. Sorry to ruin your wish of a utopian message board, but it ain't gonna happen. You might as well use what you can to your advantage and laugh the rest off. There's no use is getting all lathered up over something you really can't control. If you can't handle the pissing contests, then go elsewhere to a board that's more to your liking. I doubt, however, that you'll find one as informative and urine free as this one...

[AllDay]

So are you contending that there is no way your team would be better with an active player for the first half of the season rather than Liriano, who has yet to contribute anything of value?

...and exactly how would he be assurred of drafting a player who contributes rather than some other mid-round middle of the road player who didn't do squat?

He can't. His team is reflective of how accurate his player evaluations were - and it sounds to me like he did a decent job.

Is evrerybody who drafted Smoltz and idiot? How about Rollins - everybody should have seen that coming. Everyonre should have known David Ortiz was done.

Also, there seems to be a bit of a misguided train of thought that everyone who is pondering Liriano's 2nd half drafted him and has kept him on their rosters the entire year.

Who cares where he was drafted. The question now is what will he do in the 2nd half?

[poo holes]

So are you contending that there is no way your team would be better with an active player for the first half of the season rather than Liriano, who has yet to contribute anything of value?

...and exactly how would he be assurred of drafting a player who contributes rather than some other mid-round middle of the road player who didn't do squat?

He can't. His team is reflective of how accurate his player evaluations were - and it sounds to me like he did a decent job.

Is evrerybody who drafted Smoltz and idiot? How about Rollins - everybody should have seen that coming. Everyonre should have known David Ortiz was done.

Also, there seems to be a bit of a misguided train of thought that everyone who is pondering Liriano's 2nd half drafted him and has kept him on their rosters the entire year.

Who cares where he was drafted. The question now is what will he do in the 2nd half?

Good point AllDay. As far as your question chuck...I don't know. Although, I do know I am in first this morning after Billingsley's perfomance yesterday and Liriano on my bench for the entire first half.