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June 1: When Trading Begins

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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby jondunc » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:03 pm

My league is dead in terms of trades, only one has gone through so far. Today, I did have a team ask me to evaluate a trade offer he's considering in his other league though. :-b
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby The Artful Dodger » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:42 pm

I think I'm in love with trading, but in general, I'd make 2-3 trades on average for each league, which doesn't sound too extreme. I've made a total of 5 trades in one league thus far and still think there's a bit of retooling to be done for a 1st place team. So, I expect that number to change a little.

The purpose of trades is twofold: 1) to get something that fills a need and/or 2) get a value. There's some truth in wanting to get the better of the deal each time, but realistically, when you play in leagues where most everyone knows what they're doing and can assess situations/players quite well, you can't expect to win trades by a handsome margin either.

That said, throwing out first strike offers that are reasonable enough to be taken and gives you a tilt to some degree can work. At the very least, you can get a gauge about the other fella's perception is of their own players and if the opportunity presents itself down the road, you can make a better informed bid for the player/stats you want. You can use that to your advantage later on.
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Benjn » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:55 pm

If you're in a smart league, trading is less about matching player for player value and more about addressing the other team's needs.

I tend to agree that "winning" a trade really just means that your team comes out better after you make the trade, regardless of the effect it has on the other team.

Although yeah, I'll also chime in that in smart leagues it's important to build a reputation as a fair trade partner. This increases the likelihood that you can squeeze in an incredible sell high/buy low once in a while. :)

In my favorite league (12 team, 5x5 roto), we've had 3 trades so far and I've been part of each. Sometimes people trade just to change things up. My league tends to trust their players more than most, I think, and will generally only trade if they have someone that hits the DL and there isn't a FA to fill the hole.

Also early on, lots of good players can be picked up off the wire. As the season goes on, the amount of good players out there dwindles dramatically - forcing teams to turn to trades to address needs. Also, you can begin to see a good amount of seperation in categories and can understand exactly what you need to do to be competitive.
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Grounded Polo » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:11 pm

Yanks_Baby wrote:
Yoda wrote:I think timing is essential when it comes down to trading. A month ago, most people wouldn't think this was a bad trade and some people probably still don't think this is bad:
BJ Upton/Sheets
for
Braun/Billingsley

Since then Braun has caught absolute fire and Billingsley is pitching very well so the trade worked out for me so far. At the time some of my league mates were bitching about it but it is still an equitable trade.

I made a similar trade.

Ben Sheets/Bourn
for
Teixeira

Early in the season. Borun was hitting like 250 and leading the MLB in steals at the time, and Sheets had given up like 1 earned run in 3 starts or something, while Tex was batting like 230 with 1 homer. Seemed horrible, ended up great.

Yoda knows what I'm talking about though. Gtetting the upper hand of a lopsided deal, without it being rape.


Eh, Yoda's trade is pretty balanced. Braun/Upton are both top 25 guys, Sheets and Bills had similar ADPs. Sheets/Bourn for Tex is blatant lopsided robbery but it was in your favor so well done. ;-)
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Yanks_Baby » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:33 pm

Grounded Polo wrote:
Yanks_Baby wrote:
Yoda wrote:I think timing is essential when it comes down to trading. A month ago, most people wouldn't think this was a bad trade and some people probably still don't think this is bad:
BJ Upton/Sheets
for
Braun/Billingsley

Since then Braun has caught absolute fire and Billingsley is pitching very well so the trade worked out for me so far. At the time some of my league mates were bitching about it but it is still an equitable trade.

I made a similar trade.

Ben Sheets/Bourn
for
Teixeira

Early in the season. Borun was hitting like 250 and leading the MLB in steals at the time, and Sheets had given up like 1 earned run in 3 starts or something, while Tex was batting like 230 with 1 homer. Seemed horrible, ended up great.

Yoda knows what I'm talking about though. Gtetting the upper hand of a lopsided deal, without it being rape.


Eh, Yoda's trade is pretty balanced. Braun/Upton are both top 25 guys, Sheets and Bills had similar ADPs. Sheets/Bourn for Tex is blatant lopsided robbery but it was in your favor so well done. ;-)

(After that I added Carlos Gomez from the FA pool to fill in for Bourn. ;-D ;-) )
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Slayer Rules » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:44 pm

Yanks_Baby wrote:(After that I added Carlos Gomez from the FA pool to fill in for Bourn. ;-D ;-) )


Wow - you got a real steal there - you should try trading him for Ryan Howard - I hear that's the asking price.... :-/
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Yanks_Baby » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:46 pm

Slayer Rules wrote:
Yanks_Baby wrote:(After that I added Carlos Gomez from the FA pool to fill in for Bourn. ;-D ;-) )


Wow - you got a real steal there - you should try trading him for Ryan Howard - I hear that's the asking price.... :-/

:-b

I feel for you man.

Though I do have Howard. Traded utley for Cano Howard and Verlander. :-B :-b

I like trading. :-D
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:49 pm

My main league is dead for trading. None in the last month. The only proposals Ive gotten are from the same guy who keeps offering me these crappy 4-1/3-1/4-2 deals that include players lhe doesnt even start for my elite. He tried to offer me Gregg and Barmes for Bruce the day he was called up and yesterday offered me Putz and Barmes for Tex (Oh, I have Valverde, K-Rod and Jenks).

Its aggravating. My MI sucks (currently Betancourt/A. Ramirez) and Ive been trying to improve there. Ive offered insane deals to no takers.
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:00 pm

Bobbleheadrusty wrote:My main league is dead for trading. None in the last month. The only proposals Ive gotten are from the same guy who keeps offering me these crappy 4-1/3-1/4-2 deals that include players lhe doesnt even start for my elite. He tried to offer me Gregg and Barmes for Bruce the day he was called up and yesterday offered me Putz and Barmes for Tex (Oh, I have Valverde, K-Rod and Jenks).

Its aggravating. My MI sucks (currently Betancourt/A. Ramirez) and Ive been trying to improve there. Ive offered insane deals to no takers.

Ahaahaha, welcome to dealing with 7 or 8 of the other 11 managers in my league. Here are some offers I've gotten:

Cust+Gordon (BN)+C. Guzman (BN) for Beltran
Weeks+Hafner (BN)+Reynolds (BN, and after 3 bad weeks of WW performance) for MCab
Melky+Bourn (BN)+Swisher (BN) for Beltran
Iwamura (BN)+Cuddyer (BN)+O. Hudson (BN) for my Harang (that's right, THREE benched hitters for my highest drafted pitcher)

This is a league entirely comprised of friends and people I know from school.
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Re: June 1: When Trading Begins

Postby jake_harv88 » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:21 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:I think I'm in love with trading, but in general, I'd make 2-3 trades on average for each league, which doesn't sound too extreme. I've made a total of 5 trades in one league thus far and still think there's a bit of retooling to be done for a 1st place team. So, I expect that number to change a little.

The purpose of trades is twofold: 1) to get something that fills a need and/or 2) get a value. There's some truth in wanting to get the better of the deal each time, but realistically, when you play in leagues where most everyone knows what they're doing and can assess situations/players quite well, you can't expect to win trades by a handsome margin either.

That said, throwing out first strike offers that are reasonable enough to be taken and gives you a tilt to some degree can work. At the very least, you can get a gauge about the other fella's perception is of their own players and if the opportunity presents itself down the road, you can make a better informed bid for the player/stats you want. You can use that to your advantage later on.


Elegant post by Artful Dodger here. I agree whole-heartedly. To elaborate on the bold point its important to note that there are two very different halves of the season. In the first half of the season its very important for you to accrue as much value as possible on your team. Whether that be by free agent acquisitions or trades it doesn't matter, just collect as much value on your team and you can. Dont worry about your needs as much as there is still alot of time left in the season to fix this problem. Dont accept any trade offer that ruins the value of your team just because it fills a need.

By the second half of the season you should focus in on the needs of your team. Do you have an abundance of base stealers but really need power? Do you have extra closers but could use another starter? These are the questions you want to ask yourself. By the second half of the season its okay to be accepting less than full value as long as you are addressing the needs of your team. If you trade away a player for less than full value there is less time in the season for this to come back and haunt you.

At this point in the season I'd still be looking to collect as much value as possible on my team. If you can flip the hot starts of Quentin, Mclouth, Ludwick etc for a much more proven fantasy vet i'd look to pull the trigger...
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