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Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

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Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby sportsaddict » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:03 pm

I'm an umpire in an 8th grade baseball league. It's not a select league or anything but it's still pretty competitive. Anyway, yesterday was the championship game. Early in the game, the home team had runners on second and third with 1 out. The batter flied out to the right fielder, and the runner on third tags up to score. The runner on second base, however, is out in la-la land, and the right fielder throws to second and throws him out- it's a double play. Just a second before the runner on second base got thrown out in the double play, the runner that tagged up crossed the plate.

I immediately ruled that the run should count. I'm not a professional umpire or anything- just a high school kid that enjoys the job and wants to make some money- but I really just went with my gut on this one. The call was debated by coaches and parents for a few minutes, but in the end, it's my call, and I said that the run scored.

This ended up being critical in the outcome of the game, as the home team won by one run, 7-6.

Did I get the call right? Or should I have ruled that because it was a force out, the run did not count?
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby pokerplaya » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:36 pm

How was it a force out?

I think you made the right call - the run should count - but I don't understand how that is a force? It was a tag up play, and the run crossed the plate before the 3rd out was made.
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby ensanimal » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:21 pm

You made the right call. The run scored before the 3rd out was made.
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby Old_Style » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:26 pm

pokerplaya wrote:How was it a force out?

I think you made the right call - the run should count - but I don't understand how that is a force? It was a tag up play, and the run crossed the plate before the 3rd out was made.


The outfielder threw the ball to second before the runner tagged up. Force out.


How would that play be any different than if a runner on third crossed home before a 6-4-3 double play was completed?
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby KCollins1304 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:36 pm

I'm sure Tavish knows for sure, but I think that the run doesn't count because of the force out.
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby Tavish » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:43 pm

Run scores. A retouch is not a force play.
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:16 pm

Well if he crossed the plate before the out, then it's a run.

It isn't actually an unusual thing in baseball, though major league players don't make that running mistake often.
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby smoovethug » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:25 pm

You made the right call, good job blue.
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby pokerplaya » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:08 pm

Tavish wrote:Run scores. A retouch is not a force play.


That's what I thought...
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Re: Baseball rules question: Did I get the call right?

Postby thedude » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:15 pm

You made the right call. If it had been a force out then the run should not have counted (no matter if the run scored first or not, such as the infamous Merkle Boner. But that play is not considered a force out.

rule 2 wrote:A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the "force" situation is removed during the play. Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag out at second, the run counts. Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score. Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire's judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

http://baseball-almanac.com/rule2.shtml
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