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Re: Verlander

Postby deutschland » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:35 am

i watched a few innings of today's game and I have to say I was not impressed. his fastball was as straight as an arrow and he has no command of his offspeed stuff. he was between 95-97 early on but everyone was smacking him around. all they had to do was lay the bat over the plate for a line drive hit and all of his offspeed stuff was in the dirt. i thinl he was fortunate to avoid more damage as the game went on. only 1 frikkin K in 7 innings? he's just off right now. not sure what to do in the league I own him. i did use my #1 waiver on him but I don't think I can get anything for him in a trade. favorable matchups are coming up so I hope he can turn things around and build some trade value. I'm not confident in him at all at this point though.
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Re: Verlander

Postby moochman » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:07 am

deutschland wrote:i watched a few innings of today's game and I have to say I was not impressed. his fastball was as straight as an arrow and he has no command of his offspeed stuff. he was between 95-97 early on but everyone was smacking him around. all they had to do was lay the bat over the plate for a line drive hit and all of his offspeed stuff was in the dirt. i thinl he was fortunate to avoid more damage as the game went on. only 1 frikkin K in 7 innings? he's just off right now. not sure what to do in the league I own him. i did use my #1 waiver on him but I don't think I can get anything for him in a trade. favorable matchups are coming up so I hope he can turn things around and build some trade value. I'm not confident in him at all at this point though.


That's exactly what I was thinking too, he isn't impressive. His curve was not working and he has no answer when it isn't. The guy still has pretty good stuff, but the whole dialing down the fastball crap needs to stop. His pithes all become harder to hit when his velocity is 98 MPH and over. There are three areas of concern:
1) His drop in velocity, whether it is due to physical wear and tear or a concious decision to dial down, isn't working. Will they unleash him, or can he recapture his speed?
2) He isn't mentally strong enough. He doesn't seem to be able to bear down and throw nasty stuff at any key points in a game, or even an AB. If he were less easy going he may be telling the coaches that he has to let if fly. Also there are lingering reports of him not being in th best shape coming into spring. Which could explain loss of velocity and control. He needs to want it more, pure and simple.
3) He has a very poor D behind him. Yesterday I saw an inning in which there was a blown suicide squeeze that Pudge (a shadow of what he once was) failed to pick up the ball-twice, allowing the runner to score. Next Rentoria muffs an exchange on a DP ball and a run scores. Seattle must have the easiest scorers in the league as neither play resulted in an error.

Good news is his velocity is returning, could be he is rounding into form or maybe they are letting him pitch. Maybe he will get angry at the losing and bring it to the mound. But his D is going to let him down a ton. Recommend: Sell why he still has brand name recongnition.
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Re: Verlander

Postby Inukchuk » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:33 am

moochman wrote:Recommend: Sell why he still has brand name recongnition.


Wow. If the guy with the Verlander avatar is recommending sell, then I'm selling...
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Re: Verlander

Postby rainman23 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:59 pm

The guy's got no freaking value right now. Much as I'd like to jettison him, I still think the best course is to ride it out, hope he comes around. I may regret not dealing him for Milton Bradley or Brian Fuentes in a few weeks, but oh well.

Second time the Mariners have knocked him around. A team that's had trouble scoring against anybody. One K in seven innings. Damn. I'm so optimistic.
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Re: Verlander

Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:54 pm

rainman23 wrote:The guy's got no freaking value right now. Much as I'd like to jettison him, I still think the best course is to ride it out, hope he comes around. I may regret not dealing him for Milton Bradley or Brian Fuentes in a few weeks, but oh well.

Second time the Mariners have knocked him around. A team that's had trouble scoring against anybody. One K in seven innings. Damn. I'm so optimistic.


:-?
6 innings of 4 hit, 1 ER ball on 5/20 is getting knocked around? Or are you going back to a start in 2007...not sure how that would be relevant though
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Re: Verlander

Postby rainman23 » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:04 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:
rainman23 wrote:The guy's got no freaking value right now. Much as I'd like to jettison him, I still think the best course is to ride it out, hope he comes around. I may regret not dealing him for Milton Bradley or Brian Fuentes in a few weeks, but oh well.

Second time the Mariners have knocked him around. A team that's had trouble scoring against anybody. One K in seven innings. Damn. I'm so optimistic.


:-?
6 innings of 4 hit, 1 ER ball on 5/20 is getting knocked around? Or are you going back to a start in 2007...not sure how that would be relevant though


Sorry, I knew I should have checked the log before I submitted that one. I wasn't confusing it with the 4 hit game -- that was the high point of his recent streak of fairly recent performances. Brain cramp -- I don't know whose performance against the Mariners I was thinking of, but it wasn't Verlander's. Thanks for keeping me honest.

This doesn't change the sense of general despair about the guy, though. I hope the rest of my post proves just as wrong as that snippet. I'd love to be eating my words about Verlander in general very soon.
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Re: Verlander

Postby Philliebuster » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:10 pm

His last 6 starts:

39 IP, 39 H, 13BB, 24K, 1.33 WHIP, 3.92 ERA.....1W....4L

The past start was the ninth time in Verlander's 12 starts that the Tigers didn't score more than one run while he was in the game.
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Re: Verlander

Postby freeling_prideful » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:21 am

I'll admit the win-loss record is as unlucky as Greinke circa 2005, but the peripheral stats don't show anything that indicates to me that Verlander is a very good pitcher right now. He has a bad K rate, a mediocre walk rate, is giving up hits and compiling an ERA better than MLB average but not much better than the average fantasy starter. Those numbers look like stats from Gil Meche.
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Re: Verlander

Postby freeling_prideful » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:23 am

I just realized my previous post is an insult to Gil Meche. Meche's May: 2-3, 37 IP, 32 H, 31:10 K:BB, 3.65 ERA, 1.14 WHIP.
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Re: Verlander

Postby rainman23 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:32 pm

He'd definitely shown signs that he was turning things around a little. And so, perhaps irrationally, some of us were probably hoping that he'd take another step forward last weekend. And when that didn't really happen, it's easy to fall right back into the pit of despair. There was at least one nice development in that game. After giving up the early runs, and I began shielding my eyes from the inevitable worse news to come -- it didn't happen. He worked several more innings without damage. So, things could be worse. If he'd also blown a few batters away during that stretch, I might actually be looking forward to his next start.
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