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to veto, or not to veto

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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby dweenmachine » Fri May 30, 2008 3:26 pm

yeah, i agree with the other posts... you shouldn't veto stupidity (but wouldn't life be better if you could?)
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby hot4tx » Fri May 30, 2008 3:37 pm

That said if I were one of your leaguemates I would probably make a case for veto, inquire about not letting the trade partner guy back in for future seasons, and probably wouldn't ever trade with you again. JMHO.
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby Lickitysplit131 » Fri May 30, 2008 3:39 pm

Well its not really up to me to veto, im not the commsioner which is the bad part..

My team is in 6th, his is in 10th(out of 12).

The commissioners is in 4th right now.

The way you guys are putting, your making it sound like its horrible, lol...Im trying to convince myself that its not THAT bad...The league is for money, so if it goes through I get some cash out of it...Thast the reason i feel guilty though, everyone else in the league paid and this could potentially ruin the integrity

Oh well..Its an extra 200 dollars in my wallet if it all plays out correctly

Thanks for the input
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby Matthias » Fri May 30, 2008 3:48 pm

Lickitysplit131 wrote:The way you guys are putting, your making it sound like its horrible, lol...Im trying to convince myself that its not THAT bad...

It IS that bad. As I laid out above, you could take out Hanley for Yulen and you still come out ahead.
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby Yoda » Fri May 30, 2008 3:53 pm

The trade definitely favors you but I don't think it is nearly as bad as people are making it sound to be. I think Braun and Aramis are pretty comparable. I'd rather have Kazmir than AGon. Hanley is the best player in the deal but you are also giving up a top closer. So if your trade partner is desperate for pitching then I think this deal works for him.
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Fri May 30, 2008 3:58 pm

I think there should never be vetoes other than collusion. It's a terrible deal for him, but honestly, I've gotten more lopsided before. A couple weeks ago I netted Utley and Teixera for Marmol (holds league), Harden, Jose Lopez, and Rowand
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby Matthias » Fri May 30, 2008 4:17 pm

Yoda wrote:The trade definitely favors you but I don't think it is nearly as bad as people are making it sound to be. I think Braun and Aramis are pretty comparable. I'd rather have Kazmir than AGon. Hanley is the best player in the deal but you are also giving up a top closer. So if your trade partner is desperate for pitching then I think this deal works for him.

Braun and Aramis are comparable in the sense that they're both top 3b's, but I don't think anyone would hesitate in snagging Braun when given the choice between the two straight up. I'd say a mid-tier closer, which is what Street really is (middle of the pack in saves, relatively bad ERA, better than average WHIP) is a good approximation of their value difference.

You might prefer Kaz over Adrian but I'd also guess the majority opinion would go the other way. Fourth in the league in HRs, sixth in the league in RBIs, and no real reason to think that this is out of his mind for him... he's just a notch below the top few 1B's. And that's almost always going to be more valuable than a starting pitcher, even one as talented as Kaz, especially given his recent injury.

So that's value equivalence without Hanley and Yulen being involved in the deal... and them straight up is pretty ridiculous.
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby Yoda » Fri May 30, 2008 4:30 pm

Matthias wrote:
Yoda wrote:The trade definitely favors you but I don't think it is nearly as bad as people are making it sound to be. I think Braun and Aramis are pretty comparable. I'd rather have Kazmir than AGon. Hanley is the best player in the deal but you are also giving up a top closer. So if your trade partner is desperate for pitching then I think this deal works for him.

Braun and Aramis are comparable in the sense that they're both top 3b's, but I don't think anyone would hesitate in snagging Braun when given the choice between the two straight up. I'd say a mid-tier closer, which is what Street really is (middle of the pack in saves, relatively bad ERA, better than average WHIP) is a good approximation of their value difference.

You might prefer Kaz over Adrian but I'd also guess the majority opinion would go the other way. Fourth in the league in HRs, sixth in the league in RBIs, and no real reason to think that this is out of his mind for him... he's just a notch below the top few 1B's. And that's almost always going to be more valuable than a starting pitcher, even one as talented as Kaz, especially given his recent injury.

So that's value equivalence without Hanley and Yulen being involved in the deal... and them straight up is pretty ridiculous.


I think it really comes down to how people value each player. For instance, I consider Kazmir as a top 5 pitcher. I've always been very high on AGon (preseason discussion) but if you need pitching then you won't find too many better than Kazmir in my book.

I also think that while most people prefer Braun (as do I), that his numbers at the end of 08 will look very close to Aramis's especially with Braun running less than expected so far.

So that leaves Hanley for Yunel/Street/Jacobs. This is a classic case of selling low but if the owner giving up Hanley believes that he can compete now with better pitching in Kaz/Street then it isn't so bad especially if Kaz becomes a top pitcher.
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby fbc_fan » Fri May 30, 2008 6:12 pm

Lickitysplit131 wrote:Im trying to convince myself that its not THAT bad...


come on man, it is blatant robbery. don't kid yourself into thinking its not that bad.

i still wouldn't veto just because there is no collusion. just be prepared for a lot of angry managers since it is for money.
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Re: to veto, or not to veto

Postby Lickitysplit131 » Fri May 30, 2008 6:19 pm

Most of you are forgetting Jacbobs numbers ere equivalent to Adrian Gonzalezes until Jacobs became injured

I still have one more day to wait til the trade goes through, fingers are crossed...
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