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Why does Leyland refuse...

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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:48 am

AquaMan2342 wrote:Yeah, you know, because Toronto is known for making such savvy moves.

I can't see any team in baseball doing something as stupid as trading a guy that will be worth 2 high draft picks in a few months (something that Ricciardi has mentioned repeatedly over the last few weeks) for a terrible SS in the final year of his deal, especially when pitchers like Sabathia, Harden, and Blanton have gotten a number of prospects.

Please actually think about your ridiculous trade ideas from the side of the OTHER team next time, you might find that they don't make any sense at all before posting them.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:19 am

mweir145 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:Yeah, you know, because Toronto is known for making such savvy moves.

I can't see any team in baseball doing something as stupid as trading a guy that will be worth 2 high draft picks in a few months (something that Ricciardi has mentioned repeatedly over the last few weeks) for a terrible SS in the final year of his deal, especially when pitchers like Sabathia, Harden, and Blanton have gotten a number of prospects.

Please actually think about your ridiculous trade ideas from the side of the OTHER team next time, you might find that they don't make any sense at all before posting them.


First, it was an off-the-cuff suggestion made well before Burnett was apparently taken off the market. I'm sure, however, that the Dodgers are still interested in giving up Kemp for Burnett and Eckstein. Or was that just a passing suggestion made in hoping it would actually happen? Oh, next time I'll be sure to put a :-L or :-D after I post what I would want to happen.....will that get my point across more clearly?
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:26 am

Maris09 wrote:
clevername wrote:now 5/6 with 6 RBI.

But he should stay in the 5th so he won't clog up the bases. Genius.

Oh yea, 1-4 with a double is way better than his production in the 4 hole. And seems like everyone else on the team does better when he hits lower too.

Why not hit Guillen 3rd (to give Leyland his speed in the 3 spot), and put Ordonez 5th or 6th (if he wants a leftly between them, Joyce or something)


Guillen has done his best work hitting fifth. Scoring 19 runs doesn't change anything, it's just one game where everybody was on. Granted Joyce has actually been crushing the ball lately, but Cab still needs to be moved up at some point.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby Maris09 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:32 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:Guillen has done his best work hitting fifth. Scoring 19 runs doesn't change anything, it's just one game where everybody was on. Granted Joyce has actually been crushing the ball lately, but Cab still needs to be moved up at some point.

I don't really care where they hit Guillen, as long as they move MCab up to 3 or 4. It's painfully obvious that he's just a different hitter up there.

Granderson
Polanco
Ordonez
MCab
Guillen
Sheff
Joyce
etc..... Looks good to me. And if he wants to break up the righties a little more, then hit Granderson 2nd and leadoff with Polanco.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby moochman » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:51 pm

Maris09 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:Guillen has done his best work hitting fifth. Scoring 19 runs doesn't change anything, it's just one game where everybody was on. Granted Joyce has actually been crushing the ball lately, but Cab still needs to be moved up at some point.

I don't really care where they hit Guillen, as long as they move MCab up to 3 or 4. It's painfully obvious that he's just a different hitter up there.

Granderson
Polanco
Ordonez
MCab
Guillen
Sheff
Joyce
etc..... Looks good to me. And if he wants to break up the righties a little more, then hit Granderson 2nd and leadoff with Polanco.



My Line-up, V7.22 would be:
Granderson-Have to find a way to move him down to 5th or 6th.
Guillen-Lacks power numbers, but good contact hitter, decent speed.
Maggilo-lacks the power to hit clean-up.
M Cab-Why is Leyland so darn stubborn?
Joyce/Thames-good rotation-Thames has to sit against most better R handers and Joyce has shown he can contribute playing part time.
Sheff-Seems to be starting to hit, but way too many weak ABs
Polanco-Isn't driving in runners like he used to but still hits for okay ave. Kinda like a bottom of the orrder guy.
I Roid-hitting well over 300 the last month with about 6 RBIs during that time. Souns like clutch to me.
Santiago-The only way Rentoria should ever see the field agian is once Santiago proves he cannot hit everyday. That would give Rentoria time to fully recover from hammy injury. How stupid is it for Leyland to keep playing a guy who is slumping terribly, a mediocre SS, and injured?
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:49 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:Yeah, you know, because Toronto is known for making such savvy moves.

I can't see any team in baseball doing something as stupid as trading a guy that will be worth 2 high draft picks in a few months (something that Ricciardi has mentioned repeatedly over the last few weeks) for a terrible SS in the final year of his deal, especially when pitchers like Sabathia, Harden, and Blanton have gotten a number of prospects.

Please actually think about your ridiculous trade ideas from the side of the OTHER team next time, you might find that they don't make any sense at all before posting them.


First, it was an off-the-cuff suggestion made well before Burnett was apparently taken off the market.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, but when was he ever taken off the market?

I'm sure, however, that the Dodgers are still interested in giving up Kemp for Burnett and Eckstein. Or was that just a passing suggestion made in hoping it would actually happen? Oh, next time I'll be sure to put a :-L or :-D after I post what I would want to happen.....will that get my point across more clearly?

Give me a break, man. You proposed that trade completely seriously, and then defended it to me before finally suggesting that it was some kind of a joke after I thoroughly owned you. I'm not an idiot, so don't try to take me as one. In the future, actually think about the trade from the other side before posting. Then you won't get criticism from fans like me who actually have some sense of value.

Bringing up my Matt Kemp post (which any rational person would have seen was just a joke considering I laughed about it afterwards and never thought it to be a real possibility) is really grasping at straws.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:23 pm

"I don't see A.J. going anywhere," general manager J.P. Ricciardi said before last night's 2-1 loss to the Tampa Rays with Burnett on the hill. "There never has been a lot of talk from other teams."


Thoroughly owned because you said it's a bad deal for your team? Isn't it pretty clear to you as a Jays fan that you're out of it again this year? Why not get Burnett's contract off your hands, let Renteria play out the rest of the season and search for a cheaper (edit: new and better, not necessarily cheaper) SS via free agency or a trade in the off-season?

It sounds as if Burnett isn't really wanted in Toronto....but what if he decided not to opt out of his contract? I'd rather have an aging shortstop who is off the books and gone at the end of the year than be stuck with two more years of a $12m/yr pitcher with injury problems. I'd imagine that if he got hurt, which he obviously has in the past, the chances of him opting out become less and less by the day. Detroit has the payroll etc. to take on that kind of contract and is in more of a position to risk him getting injured.

Did I say it was the best deal? No. Did I say I'd do it if I was Toronto? No. But does it theoretically make sense? I'd say so.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:30 pm

So now it wasn't a joke? Well alright.

"I don't see A.J. going anywhere," general manager J.P. Ricciardi said before last night's 2-1 loss to the Tampa Rays with Burnett on the hill. "There never has been a lot of talk from other teams."

He's been saying things like that for weeks now. You should be paying more attention. The fact that you'd actually believe JP Ricciardi is quite cute, though. :-D

Thoroughly owned because you said it's a bad deal for your team? Isn't it pretty clear to you as a Jays fan that you're out of it again this year? Why not get Burnett's contract off your hands, let Renteria play out the rest of the season and search for a cheaper SS via free agency or a trade in the off-season?

I don't think you understand just how stupid that is. Do you even understand the benefits of allowing a Type A player to become a FA? Why would the Jays dump off Burnett for an awful SS with no contract when they can just get 2 high draft picks at the end of the year? Why?!

It sounds as if Burnett isn't really wanted in Toronto....but what if he decided not to opt out of his contract? I'd rather have an aging shortstop who is off the books and gone at the end of the year than be stuck with two more years of a $12m/yr pitcher with injury problems. I'd imagine that if he got hurt, which he obviously has in the past, the chances of him opting out become less and less by the day. Detroit has the payroll etc. to take on that kind of contract and is in more of a position to risk him getting injured.

Considering what pitchers are getting in baseball nowadays (Silva, Meche, Lilly, Eaton, etc), a 2 year/24M deal is a huge bargain for a guy like Burnett with the numbers he's put up in his career. They'd certainly have no problem paying it if he stupidly decided not to opt out. However, why would his agent let him do that? It's better to get another long term contract now before he possibly gets hurt in the next few years and loses that chance. Again, I should stress that the only reason the Jays are trying to trade Burnett (supposedly) is because he is likely to opt out at the end of the year. They don't have any problem paying his contract.

Did I say it was the best deal? No. Did I say I'd do it if I was Toronto? No. But does it theoretically make sense? I'd say so.

Except it doesn't make any sense at all.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:03 pm

Meh. I'll have to admit defeat on this one. It was most definitely wishful thinking to begin with, but once you became all douchy about it I figured I might as well try to make some sort of argument. There is not a sufficient one, however, as a simple Renteria/Burnett trade would make no sense for Toronto. Maybe Renteria/prospects, but not Renteria straight up.
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Re: Why does Leyland refuse...

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:18 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:Meh. I'll have to admit defeat on this one. It was most definitely wishful thinking to begin with, but once you became all douchy about it I figured I might as well try to make some sort of argument. There is not a sufficient one, however, as a simple Renteria/Burnett trade would make no sense for Toronto. Maybe Renteria/prospects, but not Renteria straight up.

Douchy about it? All I did was point out that your trade idea made absolutely no sense at all. It's not my fault if I hurt your feelings doing so.
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