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DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby bdrotoronto » Tue May 27, 2008 2:36 pm

chipper wrote:I've said over and over, why make a poor decision just because you are in a tight spot?

So wait, you really think that pitching Volquez for two innings was a worse decision than taking a position player (who's already been playing about 5 hours in the field) out of position and asking him to pitch, and ALSO taking Harang (who just pitched 4 innings on a non-scheduled day) and asking him to play a defensive position?? On top of the fact that you would be quitting on your team by giving up a game they've been trying all day to win?

Honestly, how can you believe that? And don't you think you're more likely injure someone by asking them to play out of position (Canseco) than what Volquez did?..
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby jnormy » Tue May 27, 2008 2:39 pm

chipper wrote:
jnormy wrote: The bigger question is, if NO win is worth hurting a young arm, why is Baker raked over the coals for making Volquez throw 131 pitches in 3 days while Terry Francona gets a free pass for allowing Lester to throw 130 pitches in ONE day?


If I have to explain the difference between a guy who is already "working out" doing more repetitions -versus- a guy who has worked out....broken down muscle tissue....then rested for a small period of time.....then there's really no point.

If you don't understand something as simple as that, there is really no need to continue here.


jnormy wrote: And since when is Volquez suddenly Johan Santana?


Not the point.....never been the point.....why am I even responding to something like this, LOL.


You completely missed MY point, so no need for the condescending tone. (You're far better at condescending than comprehending it seems.) What I was saying is that there are extenuating circumstances that lead managers to make decisions they might not ordinarily make. Do you think Francona would have considered it a good idea (or fans would have been on board with the decision) to let Lester throw 130 pitches if he didn't have the no-hitter going? Of course not! So, in comparison, in a normal situation of course Dusty shouldn't run Volquez out there two days after he pitched, but like the no-hitter, it was an unusual situation, so that changes the mindset completely.

And it's EXACTLY the point that you seem to be overvaluing Volquez by quite a bit here. Most people in the Reds organization (and elsewhere) consider Cueto their star pitcher of the future, not Volquez. Edinson's hardly the face of the franchise, and certainly not worth such an uproar as you're making just because he was asked to work some extra innings in a pinch.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 2:42 pm

jnormy wrote:And it's EXACTLY the point that you seem to be overvaluing Volquez by quite a bit here. Most people in the Reds organization (and elsewhere) consider Cueto their star pitcher of the future, not Volquez.

Which young arm to potentially ruin is hardly the point......but that's your M.O.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 2:45 pm

bdrotoronto wrote: So wait, you really think that pitching Volquez for two innings was a worse decision than taking a position player (who's already been playing about 5 hours in the field) out of position and asking him to pitch,


bdrotoronto wrote:And don't you think you're more likely injure someone by asking them to play out of position (Canseco) than what Volquez did?..

Yeah, it would have been horrible to end Corey Patterson's career.......oh wait....
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 2:47 pm

jnormy wrote:You completely missed MY point, so no need for the condescending tone. (You're far better at condescending than comprehending it seems.) What I was saying is that there are extenuating circumstances that lead managers to make decisions they might not ordinarily make.


And you had missed my point for 7 pages now.
ANYTHING is better than risking your young arm. Clear enough for yeah?
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 27, 2008 2:48 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
chipper wrote:I've said over and over, why make a poor decision just because you are in a tight spot?

That's the last post for me on this one.


I don't really believe you that you're done with this thread. :-D

I'm not arguing whether or not it was the worst decision, I just want to know what exactly was the right one in your mind.


Let me bump this in case you missed it. ;-)
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 27, 2008 2:49 pm

chipper wrote:
bdrotoronto wrote: So wait, you really think that pitching Volquez for two innings was a worse decision than taking a position player (who's already been playing about 5 hours in the field) out of position and asking him to pitch,


bdrotoronto wrote:And don't you think you're more likely injure someone by asking them to play out of position (Canseco) than what Volquez did?..

Yeah, it would have been horrible to end Corey Patterson's career.......oh wait....


So if Patterson is pitching, then that puts Harang in CF. Excellent.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 2:51 pm

knapplc wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
chipper wrote:I've said over and over, why make a poor decision just because you are in a tight spot?

That's the last post for me on this one.


I don't really believe you that you're done with this thread. :-D

I'm not arguing whether or not it was the worst decision, I just want to know what exactly was the right one in your mind.

It's far easier to take someone else to task than to solve the problem on your own, hence the bail-out by our fearless OP. What you've done, KC, is pose a logical, pertinent, and difficult-to-answer question. Don't hold your breath for an answer. :-°

I answered it man.
Do anything besides brining in your young arm a day and a half after he's thrown 90+ pitches. Anything.
I've made it clear and you know it.

No one's answered my question regarding if it would have been ok to bring in the starting pitcher from Saturday too. Anyone?
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby jnormy » Tue May 27, 2008 2:52 pm

chipper wrote:
jnormy wrote:And it's EXACTLY the point that you seem to be overvaluing Volquez by quite a bit here. Most people in the Reds organization (and elsewhere) consider Cueto their star pitcher of the future, not Volquez.

Which young arm to potentially ruin is hardly the point......but that's your M.O.


And your M.O. seems to be holding fast to an opinion that at least a dozen people in here disagree with, continue to talk about what Dusty shouldn't have done without offering one reasonable suggestion as to what he actually COULD have done, and then put people down when you don't have anything else constructive to offer.

Haven't you wondered why there's so many people refuting your argument in here and so few defending it? :-t
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 27, 2008 2:52 pm

chipper wrote:
knapplc wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
I don't really believe you that you're done with this thread. :-D

I'm not arguing whether or not it was the worst decision, I just want to know what exactly was the right one in your mind.

It's far easier to take someone else to task than to solve the problem on your own, hence the bail-out by our fearless OP. What you've done, KC, is pose a logical, pertinent, and difficult-to-answer question. Don't hold your breath for an answer. :-°

I answered it man.
Do anything besides brining in your young arm a day and a half after he's thrown 90+ pitches. Anything.
I've made it clear and you know it.

No one's answered my question regarding if it would have been ok to bring in the starting pitcher from Saturday too. Anyone?


You have stated that anything would be better, but you have not once stated exactly what you would do.
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