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DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 1:42 pm

jnormy wrote: The bigger question is, if NO win is worth hurting a young arm, why is Baker raked over the coals for making Volquez throw 131 pitches in 3 days while Terry Francona gets a free pass for allowing Lester to throw 130 pitches in ONE day?


If I have to explain the difference between a guy who is already "working out" doing more repetitions -versus- a guy who has worked out....broken down muscle tissue....then rested for a small period of time.....then there's really no point.

If you don't understand something as simple as that, there is really no need to continue here.


jnormy wrote: And since when is Volquez suddenly Johan Santana?


Not the point.....never been the point.....why am I even responding to something like this, LOL.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 1:51 pm

bigh0rt wrote:a) Harang, your current Ace, for his 5th inning of the day, who had thrown 63 pitches already, and 166 in the last 3 days?

Nope

bigh0rt wrote:b) Cueto, future Ace, who had thrown 114 pitches 4 days prior, and was supposed to start the following day?

Nope
(But you have to agree that throwing a guy a couple innings on 4 days rest is a far better idea than throwing a guy on less than 2 days rest, right?) (At least give me that).

bigh0rt wrote:It actually appears from the game log, that Dusty was out of bench bats, as well, so throwing one of them out there as an option c) seems out the window, as well.

This has been said, put one of the guys from the field out there.
Like I've said.....and said....Just because you are in a bad situation does not mean that you make a bad decision. Do whatever you can do that doesn't include throwing a young are that pitched 40 hours earlier. Period.

I've posed the question.....would it have been ok to insert Saturday's starting pitcher?
Would it?
To me Volquez throwing late Friday night and the guy who threw early Saturday are about the same.

bigh0rt wrote:but is it not as important to keep your true future Ace on schedule and not throw him out of the pen on short rest?

YES!!!!

Yes, yes, yes.

Cut your losses....take your loss and move on. I've made it very clear that jeopardizing one of your top arms, be it Harang, Volquez, Cueto, is not a good idea for one game.
I've reiterated that point like 9 times throughout this thread.
Last edited by chipper on Tue May 27, 2008 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 27, 2008 1:56 pm

chipper wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:a) Harang, your current Ace, for his 5th inning of the day, who had thrown 63 pitches already, and 166 in the last 3 days?

Nope

bigh0rt wrote:b) Cueto, future Ace, who had thrown 114 pitches 4 days prior, and was supposed to start the following day?

Nope
(But you have to agree that throwing a guy a couple innings on 4 days rest is a far better idea than throwing a guy on less than 2 days rest, right?) (At least give me that).

bigh0rt wrote:It actually appears from the game log, that Dusty was out of bench bats, as well, so throwing one of them out there as an option c) seems out the window, as well.

This has been said, put one of the guys from the field out there.
Like I've said.....and said....Just because you are in a bad situation does not mean that you make a bad decision. Do whatever you can do that doesn't include throwing a young are that pitched 40 hours earlier. Period.

I've posed the question.....would it have been ok to insert Saturday's starting pitcher?
Would it?
To me Volquez throwing late Friday night and the guy who threw early Saturday are about the same.

bigh0rt wrote:but is it not as important to keep your true future Ace on schedule and not throw him out of the pen on short rest?

YES!!!!

Yes, yes, yes.

Cut your losses....take you loss and move on. I've made it very clear that jepordizing one of your top arms, be it Harang, Volquez, Cueto, it not a good idea for one game.
I've reiterated that point like 9 times throughout this thread.


Your stance begs the question, which position player were you going to put in to pitch? Whichever player it was, would then have to be replaced by Harang. For arguments sake, let's say they put Harang in left field because that is the easiest defensive position. Then there would be people saying Dusty was a moron for risking his pitcher's health playing in left field. What you really seem to be calling for is that they forfeit the game after they have used all their bullpen arms.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 1:58 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:What you really seem to be calling for is that they forfeit the game after they have used all their bullpen arms.

What I am arguing is that anything is better than doing what he did.
How have you not gotten that point?


I'm done. Go on arguing. Long live Baker....
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 27, 2008 2:01 pm

chipper wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:What you really seem to be calling for is that they forfeit the game after they have used all their bullpen arms.

What I am arguing is that anything is better than doing what he did.
How have you not gotten that point?


And I want to know exactly what you would have done. Who comes in to pitch the 18th, where do you play Harang, etc.

You are making many personal attacks including to me when there was nothing insulting to you about my post.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby chipper » Tue May 27, 2008 2:08 pm

I've said over and over, why make a poor decision just because you are in a tight spot?

That's the last post for me on this one.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 27, 2008 2:12 pm

chipper wrote:I've said over and over, why make a poor decision just because you are in a tight spot?

That's the last post for me on this one.


I don't really believe you that you're done with this thread. :-D

I'm not arguing whether or not it was the worst decision, I just want to know what exactly was the right one in your mind.
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby AussieDodger » Tue May 27, 2008 2:21 pm

chipper wrote:I'm done. Go on arguing. Long live Baker....


No
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby knapplc » Tue May 27, 2008 2:32 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
chipper wrote:I've said over and over, why make a poor decision just because you are in a tight spot?

That's the last post for me on this one.


I don't really believe you that you're done with this thread. :-D

I'm not arguing whether or not it was the worst decision, I just want to know what exactly was the right one in your mind.

It's far easier to take someone else to task than to solve the problem on your own, hence the bail-out by our fearless OP. What you've done, KC, is pose a logical, pertinent, and difficult-to-answer question. Don't hold your breath for an answer. :-°
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
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Re: DUSTY BAKER.....REALLY DUDE?

Postby saemick » Tue May 27, 2008 2:32 pm

All of this discussion as well as the situation itself could have easily been avoided if Dusty had just signed Neifi and put him in the lineup!

They would have won the game in 9 innings (probably in 7 if Neifi was having a good day) and there would be no controversy regarding the Reds young pitchers, bad managing, etc...
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