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Postby The Jury » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:54 pm

Robb Nen anyone?
[quote:4fef447375="Geek"]The odds of the AL MVP coming from the American League are looking pretty good.[/quote]
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:13 pm

bleach168 wrote:When it comes to closers the only stat I care about is how many saves they are going to get. The most important criteria for getting saves is job security. I don't have my list ready, but I'm shocked Hoffman or Julio isn't on any of the lists posted.

I would certainly rank Hoffman and Julio ahead of guys like Baez, Borowski, Cordero, and Nathan.


Hoffman is likely to be injured, and Julio is the worst closer in baseball. If he keeps his job, he'll have a terrible ERA/WHIP and don't think that won't affect your overall ERA/WHIP, because it will. Especially in H2H.

Also, Borowski was awesome last year, Cordero was awesome when he was the closer, Nathan doesn't have any competition and could get 40 saves with great K/ERA/WHIP. Baez was ranked in the 7th tier so obviously I don't expect much, but he has a great career relief WHIP and BAA, so the ERA is bound to come down. He was lights out in 2001, and also under-rated last season. He also has the closer spot to himself and should get 35 saves. Julio MIGHT get that many, but with a much higher WHIP and ERA. I'll take Baez over him any day of the week.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:18 pm

LBJackal wrote:Tier 1: Gagne
Tier 2: Wagner
Tier 3: Smoltz, Foulke, Rivera
Tier 4: Dotel, Guardado, Percival, Izzy
Tier 5: Cordero, Benitez, Nathan
Tier 6: Borowski, Mantei
Tier 7: Baez, Rhodes


I would put Borowski in the 4th tier as well. He will get more saves than anyone in the 5th tier. Im pretty sure his job is secure after his domination last yr.

And Looper should be somewhere in there too - maybe in the 6th tier.
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:32 pm

Borowski saved 33 game as the full time closer last year. I'm reluctant to include him in the 5th tier, let alone the 4th. At his very best he managed 33 saves. Now they have a dominant RP in the bullpen as well - LaTroy Hawkins. I don't think he can get much better than last year. I don't see him getting more saves than any of Nathan, Benitez, or Cordero.

And how did I forget to mention the 2nd worst closer in all of baseball? DON'T OVER-RATE BRADEN LOOPER!! He has a horrible ERA, WHIP, K/9, BAA, and just about any other stat you can name. He's making a push to surpass Jorge Julio as the worst closer in baseball, and he might actually have that title since I over-looked him when I gave the award to Julio. This is related to real life mind you, not fantasy. But both of those clowns don't deserve to be rated in the top 16 closers for fantasy.

Cornbread, are you bitter because I didn't include Fernando Rodney? :-D
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:57 pm

Andy1234 wrote:Tier 1
1. Gagne

Tier 2
2. Smoltz
3. Wagner
4. Rivera
5. Foulke

Tier 3
6. Izzy
7. Percival
8. Guardado

Tier 4
9. Dotel
10. Hoffman
11. Benitez
12. Rhodes
13. Julio

Tier 5
14. Borowski
15. Looper
16. Nathan
17. Kolb
18. Mantei
19. Chacon
20. Graves


Now that's a list I can endorse :)

Hoffman is likely to be injured, and Julio is the worst closer in baseball. If he keeps his job, he'll have a terrible ERA/WHIP and don't think that won't affect your overall ERA/WHIP, because it will. Especially in H2H.


Well, Hoffman isn't more likely to get injured than say Mantei who made your list. And while Julio might not have pretty #'s, like I said, I only care about job security. As for your comments on Nathan, I will have to review his status as the closer. Sounds like he has a lot of job security and I should move him up on my list.

And lastly, I don't play H2H. :)
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:14 pm

Hoffman has a 40% tear in his rotator cuff and missed all of last season. Mantei had TJ surgery 3 years ago and was extrememly effective last season. There's a bit of a difference between them. Mantei isn't a sure thing, but if he was he'd be ranked higher than I have him.
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Postby Andy1234 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:19 pm

LBJackal wrote:Julio is the worst closer in baseball. If he keeps his job, he'll have a terrible ERA/WHIP and don't think that won't affect your overall ERA/WHIP, because it will. Especially in H2H
Are you basing this off of just last years stats? because two years ago Julio had very respectable numbers on a very poor Oriole team. In 67 Apperences, his ERA was at 1.99 and had a WHIP of 1.21. He only had 25 saves but thats becasue the O's went the final 2 months or so without giving him a Save Opp. So he has done well in the past. You can say it was his rookie year and he caught the league by surprise, or you can say last year was just a sophmore slump. If he can come close to the way he pitched 2 years ago he would be a top 10 closer on this Oriole team. I don't think he'll get that close to them, but still enough to warrent a top 15 pick among RP.

Alfonseca was much worse last year than Julio or even Looper.
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:30 pm

Alfonseca isn't a closer, and wasn't a closer last year either. But I agree, he's terrible.
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:59 pm

LBJackal wrote:Hoffman has a 40% tear in his rotator cuff and missed all of last season. Mantei had TJ surgery 3 years ago and was extrememly effective last season. There's a bit of a difference between them. Mantei isn't a sure thing, but if he was he'd be ranked higher than I have him.


I'm actually very high on Mantei, and if his only injury concern was TJ surgery I wouldn't have made my earlier comments. The fact is, Mantei has a history of injuries which included missing a month last year due to "shoulder tendinitis."

And Hoffman didn't exactly miss all of last season. He did come back for September in which he had a very solid month. Yes, the partially torn rotator cuff is a concern, but many players opt to rehab that instead of surgery. I'd be more concerned if Hoffman was a SP, but since he's only slated to pitch about 60 innings, I'm willing to gamble that he lasts the whole year.

But I'm beginning to nitpick so I'll shut up now.
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Postby Joe Mauer » Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:01 pm

Tier 1: Gagne
Tier 2: Wagner, Smoltz, Faulk
Tier 3: Rivera
Tier 4: Dotel, Guardado, Izzy
Tier 2,467: Me
Tier 4,672: Cornbread Maxwell %-6
Tier 5,238: LBJackal :-/
Tier 178,983: Pogotheostrich :-t

Seriously, can an ostrich really pitch? I seriously don't think so and you all should downgrade him on your draft lists as such. :-o

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