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Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby J35J » Wed May 21, 2008 11:23 am

I'm with Hybrid here....Adenhart is pretty overrated. His stuff is definately middle of the pack. Aumont is the only guy with good potential in that group and he is still a couple years away. I'll take Cueto every time here.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby jwhands » Wed May 21, 2008 11:43 pm

I still disagree. The Cueto fad is just that, a fad. He had 2 decent outings to start the season, then nothing. He shows this with his 5.75 ERA IN THE MAJORS (can't blame the poor defense there). His fastball does touch the mid-90s, but those type of pitchers are a dime a dozen. His stuff, IMO, is the stuff that is actually overrated. We can compare WHIP between the two, but the fact still remains that Sanchez has a better opponent's average. Cueto will need to do a lot more adjustments than what you believe.

And yes, I do follow the minors....a lot. I've built some great farm systems on my teams with my own scouting and have not had one regret yet. A 3.28 ERA isn't that spectacular, especially not as great as you make him out to be. I also did comparisons with more than just his ERA, so yes I did take a look deeper than his ERA. Good luck with Cueto, but I think that having him over those 3 pitchers will be a long term mistake.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby hybrid » Thu May 22, 2008 3:15 am

A fad? Cueto isn't a fad at all, he has shown that he is a very good prospect w/ reason to believe it will translate to major league success. Also when you show personal bias in you post by saying 13.1IP - 6H - 3ER - 0BB 18K, is "decent" you've already start to lose peoples interest cause they will think you have something against him.

Basically since those first 2 great starts, he has been back and forth, like most any 22 year old rookie would do when first coming into the league. When a kid has a plus FB & slider, to go with great command, it's not a dime a dozen. If people didn't expect him to struggle some with only 80+ innings above A ball, they were crazy to begin with. His progress will continue for most of the year with different adjustments through out, he really should be in AAA dominating instead of where he is at the moment.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby RedHopeful » Thu May 22, 2008 10:45 am

hybrid wrote:Basically since those first 2 great starts, he has been back and forth, like most any 22 year old rookie would do when first coming into the league. When a kid has a plus FB & slider, to go with great command, it's not a dime a dozen. If people didn't expect him to struggle some with only 80+ innings above A ball, they were crazy to begin with. His progress will continue for most of the year with different adjustments through out, he really should be in AAA dominating instead of where he is at the moment.


Exactly! Jwhands, if you are so adept at handling and understanding stats, why you do keep raising the 5.75 ERA? It isn't any true indicator of his potential for the rest of his career!!!
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby jwhands » Thu May 22, 2008 4:20 pm

Cueto actually managed to lower his ERA last night to 5.56. His pinpoint control didn't disappoint, as he only walked 3 batters in 5 innings. If it weren't for 2 of the 4 earned runs that he gave up to occur, he would have walked away with a ND.

As for 22 year olds who struggle coming into the league, here are the first year starter stats for this year's top 10 ranked starters:


J Santana (23) - 2.99 ERA, .212 BAA
J Peavy (22) - 4.52 ERA, .274 BAA
E Bedard (25) - 4.59 ERA, .270 BAA
J Beckett (22) - 4.10 ERA, .232 BAA
B Webb (24) - 2.84 ERA, .212 BAA
CC Sabathia (20) - 4.39 ERA, .228 BAA
C Hamels (22) - 4.08 ERA, .237 BAA
J Lackey (23) - 3.66 ERA, .267 BAA
D Haren (22) - 5.08 ERA, .293 BAA
C Zambrano (21) - 3.66 ERA, .235 BAA


J Cueto (22) 5.56 ERA, .257 BAA

Of those 10 pitchers, only Dan Haren initially struggled when he entered the league. I'm sorry, but everything points to Cueto not being as great as people hype. Adenhart should still be a very serviceable starter in the bigs. Also, Aumont has been tearing up A-ball, where he has a .167 BAA and a 3:1 K:BB ratio. My theory is sell high and buy low. Looking at the other posts, Cueto is definitely being viewed as very high and Adenhart low (because of 2 shaky starts). Go get those 3 pitchers and build more depth to your staff. Cueto will not be anything spectacular in the future, unless he begins to develop his secondary pitches.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby imblotto » Wed May 28, 2008 11:34 am

Im very suprised no one's mentioning Gamel too much in this thread. The guy's hitting 0.384 and never letting up.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby J35J » Wed May 28, 2008 12:39 pm

imblotto wrote:Im very suprised no one's mentioning Gamel too much in this thread. The guy's hitting 0.384 and never letting up.


Gamel is a fine player....probably be a solid mlb player for a few years. The thing is I'm not sure he projects as a must have fantasy player at the moment. If he can continue on the track he is showing this year that all can change of course but I'm going to guess he'll be a solid mlb player but a mediocore fantasy option(not really above avg at any one thing)....we'll see though, thats the fun of it.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby PlayingWithFire » Thu May 29, 2008 4:53 am

hybrid, I heard you saying that the Mariners will ruin Aumont and I raise you a "when's the last time the Reds developed a good consistent starting pitcher?"

I will definitely take the field here and take the 3 instead of the one. Cueto has the highest ceiling of the group right now(Aumont has knockout stuff and frame, but got quite a bit of work to do and well, the Mariners aren't known to be very good in that department). But lets not understate Adenhart here. Sure he was a bit lucky in Triple-A, but I watched a few of his starts on MLB.tv, the guy has borderline #1 stuff, his fastball got a lot of movements at times and his curve really snaps. Sure, he doesn't lightup the radar gun(90-93) and probably will be more of a Derek Lowe type than the Randy Johnson type. But that's still useful in fantasy. Gamel is hitting great now and I think can develop into a middle of the road MLB regular. Aumont is the wild card here but just consider him a lottery ticket with really high upside, would I count on him? Absolutely not, but hey, I'd probably do the deal if it's Gamel+Adenhart. A #2 starter and a mlb regular in my mind beats a potential #1 starter for the Reds anyday. I heavily buy into the organization development history. First 3 of the list goes: No SF hitting prospects, No Reds pitching prospects, No Pirates prospects period.
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby J35J » Thu May 29, 2008 7:51 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:But lets not understate Adenhart here. Sure he was a bit lucky in Triple-A, but I watched a few of his starts on MLB.tv, the guy has borderline #1 stuff, his fastball got a lot of movements at times and his curve really snaps.


Really? I was thouroughly unimpressed with the couple outings I saw. Not to mention he has gotten progressivly worse as he's moved up through the minors. :-?
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Re: Cueto for Gamel/Adenhart/Aumont

Postby PlayingWithFire » Thu May 29, 2008 1:10 pm

J35J wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:But lets not understate Adenhart here. Sure he was a bit lucky in Triple-A, but I watched a few of his starts on MLB.tv, the guy has borderline #1 stuff, his fastball got a lot of movements at times and his curve really snaps.


Really? I was thouroughly unimpressed with the couple outings I saw. Not to mention he has gotten progressivly worse as he's moved up through the minors. :-?


21 years old in AAA, he's got a little time
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