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Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby Maris09 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:46 am

bigh0rt wrote:Whether or not you agree with possible downsides doesn't mean they weren't presented to you in a perfectly reasonable way...

I thought he was referring to things he had listed to me in conversation over the last few pages.
I read the first portion of this thread a long time ago, and then came into it once it was bumped up again.
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby Maris09 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am

bigh0rt wrote:Whether or not you agree with possible downsides doesn't mean they weren't presented to you in a perfectly reasonable way...

I went back and read, and in all fairness, I still did not see examples given for what this downside is. Not just examples I didn’t agree with, but any actual reasons for his declared downside. I didn’t read anything from him other than he feels the system simply is not broken, and that it’s just not a problem.
So yes opinion was given that it’s not needed, and assertions were made that there is “downside”, but I still feel like my question was a valid one.

Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I in no way meant to discount someone’s views. I just didn’t appreciate being told that I ignored his opinion. Quite the contrary actually. I read what his opinion was, and asked him for the reasons as to why it was his opinion.

No one is going to win this argument obviously, and I don’t want to hang out in here and get ganged up on. Apologies if I offended. I truly hope whatever MLB does this year or next, makes the game better without disrupting it much. Similar to the people arguing against all IR, I do not want the game to be disrupted in a major way.
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby Yoda » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:35 am

Well it's here now. Any guesses as to how they will use it?

mlb.com wrote:8/14/2008 1:58 PM ET
Selig: Work continues on instant replay
Commissioner says he wants to be sure system is 'perfect'
By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com

WASHINGTON -- Commissioner Bud Selig said after the closing of Thursday's joint meeting of the 30 club executives that he could implement instant replay for disputed home run calls before the end of the season.
"I'm hoping we can get the bugs out sometime before the postseason," Selig said. "Whether we can make that timetable or not really hasn't been determined."

The owners, eight of whom sit on the executive council along with Selig, were briefed about the replay plan on Wednesday and the full body of executives heard the details on Thursday morning.

It was not an action item on either agenda and a vote by the clubs is not necessary for Selig to move forward and implement it. Substantial time has been spent by baseball operations on developing the plan since the general managers endorsed it with a 25-5 vote at their annual meetings late last year.

"Well, we're working on the whole instant replay situation -- it didn't need a vote," Selig said. "I'm quite satisfied that we're trying to get all the bugs out of it. It'll be very limited in its form, as you know. I'm a little reluctant to speak out about it until I know everything is working, but we are moving in the right direction." ... (full article)
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby Bwanna » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:51 pm

Sporting News wrote:Umps hold up replay, claim too many problems
NEW YORK (AP) -- Umpires want baseball to take another look at instant replay.

Umps said their governing board voted Tuesday to boycott a conference call with management intended discuss implementing replay, angry that their concerns aren't being addressed.

Major League Baseball responding by saying it canceled the Wednesday call because it doesn't have a replay agreement with the union.

"A lot of the procedural issues necessary for instant replay to be implemented need to be worked out," World Umpires Association spokesman Lamell McMorris said. "Major League Baseball needs to step up to the plate and iron out these issues."

Umpires say they're unhappy that replay equipment is being installed away from the field in nearly all major league ballparks and say MLB wants to limit the number of umpires allowed to review replay monitors.

They also aren't pleased that MLB wants them to discuss the replays with umpire supervisors in New York before making a decision on whether to reverse a call. They claim MLB may not be able to provide replays for some rescheduled games.

"I'm not going to go through these one by one. I will tell you that on a number of them, the comments are simply not accurate," said Rob Manfred, MLB's executive vice president for labor relations. "For example, we've had an understanding with the WUA for some time that the crew chief and the crew chief only would be the one responsible for reviewing the video and making the decision on instant replay.

"There are other issues that remain to be worked out. It is my general policy that I don't comment when I'm trying to bargain but I remain confident that we're gong to be able to make a deal."

Baseball has started installing equipment in ballparks, hoping to get a replay system up and running this month. It would be used for boundary calls, such as determining whether balls cleared fences for home runs and whether potential homers near foul poles were fair.

McMorris said that other than at Chase Field in Phoenix, the equipment will cause umpires to leave the field.

"Thus, there will be a lack of transparency and obviousness for the public as to what is going on when instant replay is under way," he said.

McMorris said the procedures and limitations were proposed by Jimmie Lee Solomon, MLB's executive vice president for baseball operations.

"There may be situations where the umpires will have to leave the field in shifts so that everyone can view the video while leaving the requisite number of umpires on the field," McMorris said. "This could create a "Laurel and Hardy' effect, and may cause delay-of-game problems."

McMorris said Solomon wants some umpires to remain on the field because "he doesn't trust the teams to behave themselves in their absence." McMorris also said MLB hasn't thought about where to place batters and runners after a changed call, or how crew chiefs will communicate decisions to the teams, official scorer, media and fans.

McMorris maintained Solomon originally wanted only an umpire supervisor to review replays, but that umpires objected and said they wanted to see the video for themselves. In addition, McMorris said MLB hasn't figured out how to secure the cabinets where the equipment is stored, claiming that in some ballparks the location is in public areas.

"The umpires raised concerns and brought potential problems to Solomon's attention at least six weeks ago," McMorris said.

Solomon did not return a call seeking comment and was en route to Beijing, MLB spokesman Rich Levin said.
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby hybrid » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:59 pm

Either the people involved in this are really stupid, or they are just trying to delay it due to "procedures", probably a bit of both though. Some of their comments on how it will effect the crowd by all the umps leaving is hilarious. Why do all the umps have to leave in the first place, seriously I wonder sometimes how smart you have to be to have higher up jobs and usually the answer I conclude is not really at all.
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby thedude » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:42 pm

hybrid wrote:Either the people involved in this are really stupid, or they are just trying to delay it due to "procedures", probably a bit of both though. Some of their comments on how it will effect the crowd by all the umps leaving is hilarious. Why do all the umps have to leave in the first place, seriously I wonder sometimes how smart you have to be to have higher up jobs and usually the answer I conclude is not really at all.



I imagine that the umps will use replay to bargain a few more jobs for the union.
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby Bwanna » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:44 am

Umpires, MLB sign agreement on instant replay
By RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer

NEW YORK (AP)—Baseball umpires and management signed an agreement Wednesday that will allow the sport to start using instant replay to help determine calls on the field.

Major League Baseball still hasn’t determined when the use of replays will start. Installation of equipment has been going on at ballparks, and officials have said they hoped to start using replay in August.

Replays will be limited to boundary calls, such as determining whether fly balls were fair or foul, or whether they went over fences.

“I told our members that it’s just another tool that we can use to get the play right, not to look at it as a negative, but a positive,” World Umpires Association president John Hirschbeck said. “As hard as you try, as much as you hustle, sometimes with just the landscape of the ballparks nowadays, it’s hard to tell. So if we can get it right, you know what, let’s use it as a tool to get it right.”

The deal was signed by management lawyer Dan Halem and WUA attorney Brian Lam one day after a WUA spokesman went public with complaints over negotiations.

After haggling over final details, the sides exchanged proposals Tuesday night.

“We reached an agreement. Final decision with respect to moving ahead has not been made yet, but we have an agreement with the umpires,” said Rob Manfred, baseball’s executive vice president of labor relations.

full story
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby quitesanemax » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:50 am

I really believe they should wait til next season. Major changes like that shouldn't be made mid-season. MLB has done fine for the many years it has not had instant replay... it can wait one more offseason. During the offseason they can be going over the details to make sure it gets done right, rather than rushing it in like they seem to be trying to do.

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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby BALCO All-Stars » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:07 am

I agree about not implementing it during the regular season, but I'm fine with using it during the playoffs. It's unfair to have some regular season games played without replay and others with replay...the regular season should all be played under the same rules, then implement replay so the playoffs are played all under the same rules.
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Re: Delgado Robbed - It's time for instant replay

Postby Yoda » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:09 am

I think they should use the offseason to hammer out the issues and implement it for 09. Obviously the umpires want more control and money while MLB just wants to system in place. This isn't that complicated. Almost every major sport has been using instant replay for many years with great success.
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