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Some Facts About Barry Bonds

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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:31 pm

lesgrant wrote: Enough probable cause has been shown by prosecutors to subpoena Bonds as a witness to illegal steroid distribution. He’s not an executive of the company, so he probably isn’t linked in any administrative capacity. He’s not a scientist, so he’s not a witness to the development. He can only be a witness to the distribution and/or consumption.


Of Supplements ..... right? cus that was what he was getting there, just like alot of other Athletes ..
Giants catcher A.J. Pierzynski also received supplements from Anderson and was called to the Balco hearings. "I had proof of everything they had ever sent me, and it was multi-vitamins," he said. "I went in, showed them what he had sent me... and I walked out without having to see the grand jury."

lesgrant wrote: No matter what happens, Bonds and other athletes will be called to testify. When he takes the fifth, I wonder what statistical analysis you will use to explain that. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Barry Bonds is totally clean and clear from this scandal.


Why would he plead the fifth? He has already said that he didn't take them. Greg Andersons lawyers said .. "Barry was offered them and he refused" Why would he plead the fifth.

Your hatred for the man is starting to show....

lesgrant wrote: Those that require a positive test result from Barry from this record breaking season are people that won’t believe anything. Anyone who requires impossibilities as evidence are people that don’t want to be convinced of it at all. There are many Pete Rose supporters out there that still believe he never bet on baseball, despite a paper trail to the contrary. There are many OJ supporters that cling to the hope he didn’t do it. There will always be Bonds supporters who won’t believe it even if he admits it (see Pete Rose coverage).


Your week agrument fails on one simple point.
Pete Rose is an admitted Liar, Cheat and Convicted Felon.
Barry Bonds has never done a thing. I am pretty sure he has never even been suspended from baseball. As a matter of fact Barrys only real crime, is not coddling up to the same "press" that hounded his father during his career. And you guys want him to pee in a cup and give to these idiots? get real
As for Pete. The city of Cooperstown should get a restraining order on him! Hey what ever it takes to keep the felon out.


Why would a big time superstar use steroids?
That one is so easy, I can’t believe you’re asking it. In Barry’s case: earning potential in twilight of his career. Do you think Barry Bonds’ earning potential as an athlete/spokesperson increased or decreased with a home run record under his belt? Do you think his value in retirement in terms of signing autographs, being a spokesperson, or being a broadcaster, increased or decreased with that home run record? How much would it increase or decrease if he broke Hank Aarons’ record? It’s the oldest motivation there is – perpetuating money and fame. The sad and sick thing about it is that there are some athletes in a variety of sports who will risk their lives for one more flash of the camera or million dollar check.


ROFLMAO .....

can you imagine Barry Bonds sitting around signing autographs later on in life? I can't!! This is the same player that never once tested the free agent market to see what he is was really worth, and you have him risking liver failure, small gonads, and the scrutiny and banishment of the world so his "Autograph" will be worth $15.00 vs. $10.00 when he retires....

get a clue....


lesgrant wrote: For those who don’t care if Barry or other major athletes are on steroids: Would you care if your son decided to try them after he saw how well they worked for Barry or your daughter decided to use them because Marion Jones broke WR and won gold medals using them? How much will you care about Barry many years after his retirement when his life is shortened because of using this crap?


actually I am very concerned. And the more I read and study, I am pretty convinced that Giambi was juiced ... :,-(

Spike wrote:(There ARE steroids that can help the "fast-twitch" fibers.)


WTF are "twitch fibers"?
I have studied this a ton and never once heard of "twicth fibers". Much less the fast ones?

lesgrant wrote: Bonds as quoted by Redbird Nation, responding to Turk Wendell’s charge that he’s as doped up as an East German weightlifter:

"Just to disrespect other people like that, or talk to the media, I think that's chickensh*t. If you've got something to say, you come to my face and say it, and we'll deal with each other, but don't be a p*ssy and go talk to the media like you're some tough guy."

Sounds like ‘roid rage to me. I wonder if he and Mike Tyson have the same anger management counselor.


Redbird Nation? ... hmm :-? wonder where there bias lies.
If ya wanted the quote, all ya needed to do was check the AP, at least ideally they should be less biast right?

This is not roid rage. Roid Rage is "out of control" "danger to oneselves and others" "usually associated with extreme violence".
Grouperman941 wrote:Pretty tame words compared to what I might have come up with if I was in Bonds' position, and I've never taken steroids.


agreed ;-D

Just helping to free Barry Bonds from the chains of ignorance.
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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:50 pm

TownDrunk wrote:
Good luck with that. It's like arguing with a fence post.


and they say I am the stubborn one ..
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:53 pm

I am actually humored by the whole Bonds/steroids issue. I don't see how anyone not named Barry Bonds can come in here and argue 100% whether he did or didn't do steroids. We can point to head size, body size, roid rage, stats, stat spikes, etc. but no one knows for sure. I am not just talking about the people saying that Barry is on the juice. I am also talking about the Barry supporters. Anyone can come up with as much information and medical facts as they want. We will never know for sure whether he did them unless he admits it or if it is proven in a court of law. That's it.
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Here's one more.....

Postby thomasps3 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:10 pm

Lawyer for trainer: Bonds rejected THG offer

This was reported today on espn.com. That essentially means that either Bonds didn't do it, or he has some serious PULL with his trainer's attorney, which would seem highly unlikely when you think that this guy is facing jail time, imo
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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:40 pm

Lofunzo wrote:I am actually humored by the whole Bonds/steroids issue. I don't see how anyone not named Barry Bonds can come in here and argue 100% whether he did or didn't do steroids. We can point to head size, body size, roid rage, stats, stat spikes, etc. but no one knows for sure. I am not just talking about the people saying that Barry is on the juice. I am also talking about the Barry supporters. Anyone can come up with as much information and medical facts as they want. We will never know for sure whether he did them unless he admits it or if it is proven in a court of law. That's it.


Well Lofunzo, I am glad you are humored.
Shouldn't he be innocent until proven guilty?
He has never broken a law.
He has never been punished by baseball
To the best of my knowledge, he has never beat his wife.

but almost everybody has him guilty. In Texas I am sure they call it a public lynching ...

But, I am glad to see that people are actually taking the time to read both sides of this discussion. That is all I ask. IMO, the facts are right in front of you. Most people just choose to ignore them. Even ESPN went so far as to try and show the other side this afternoon.

thanks
wv
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:50 pm

wrveres wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:I am actually humored by the whole Bonds/steroids issue. I don't see how anyone not named Barry Bonds can come in here and argue 100% whether he did or didn't do steroids. We can point to head size, body size, roid rage, stats, stat spikes, etc. but no one knows for sure. I am not just talking about the people saying that Barry is on the juice. I am also talking about the Barry supporters. Anyone can come up with as much information and medical facts as they want. We will never know for sure whether he did them unless he admits it or if it is proven in a court of law. That's it.


Well Lofunzo, I am glad you are humored.
Shouldn't he be innocent until proven guilty?
He has never broken a law.
He has never been punished by baseball
To the best of my knowledge, he has never beat his wife.

but almost everybody has him guilty. In Texas I am sure they call it a public lynching ...

But, I am glad to see that people are actually taking the time to read both sides of this discussion. That is all I ask. IMO, the facts are right in front of you. Most people just choose to ignore them. Even ESPN went so far as to try and show the other side this afternoon.

thanks
wv


WR.......That is 1 of my points. The facts aren't necessarily in front of you. They say that if a pregnant woman drinks, then she will have an unhealthy baby. Yet, some of them are born healthy. Just because steroids claim to have this or that effect doesn't mean that they always will. It's not about innocent until proven guilty to me in this instance. I am just talking about how people pro or con with Barry are acting like it's so clear cut. It isn't because no matter how many facts are presented, we still don't know.

I am looking at both sides of the argument and, unless Barry himself is proven guilty, we will never know what really happened.

Since you are looking for some credible info regarding his head size and steroid use, I would also like an answer to a question that I continue to ask.......Why is Barry this good at this stage of his career and why is he having his career years now? I would like to know another athlete that has had his best years approaching 40. While he has always been a very good player, he has exploded the last few years. Is someone going to tell me that at age 36, he finally learned how to really hit? I use 2000 as the year where he started this latest explosion. I have also never seen anyone that had their batspeed increase this late in their career. He used to be able to be struck out high and tight and now he drives that ball. I would like some information on this as well.
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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:13 pm

Well since we are talking about on of the best to play the game, might as well compare him to one of the best.

Ted Williams seemed to have a pretty solid year at age 38, 39 and 40.

the fact of the matter is steriods have been around for decades, 10,000+ baseball players have had access to them, and not one of them, with or with out the steriods has come close to what Barry is doing. Its just a lazy excuse to explain away what we don't understand.
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Postby lesgrant » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:16 pm

Wrveres you are all jokes.

I love how you hold up the words of Bonds’ attorney and the attorney of someone who used to pay Bonds to be a spokesman and call that the truth. LMFAO

Supplements? Are you really saying that Barry Bonds was subpoenaed to testify about Flintstone’s Chewables? Put down the crack pipe. Pierzynski didn’t have to go before the GJ, Bonds did. Don’t you see that distinction? If Barry was just getting vitamins, why wasn’t he released, just like AJ?

As for Bonds’ earning potential as a retiree, Joey DiMaggio made millions pal, much more than when he was a player. You get a clue.

You claim Bonds has already said he didn’t do it. What court transcript was this in? Saying it to reporters doesn’t mean anything. It’s not a crime to lie to Peter Gammons, it’s a crime to lie under oath. Many people say things to the press and then say nothing at all or an entirely different story under oath, especially under cross-examination.

I cited Redbird Nation because that’s where I found it first. The same quote is on ESPN as well. That particular post was a joke. If you weren’t lost in your FREE BARRY B fantasy world you would have picked up on that.

Face it, you just wanna believe him. He’s your guy and it’s okay. I have my favorite players too. We all do. But at some point you gotta pull your head out of the sand and take a cold hard look at what’s going on with your favorite sport.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:16 pm

wrveres wrote:Well since we are talking about on of the best to play the game, might as well compare him to one of the best.

Ted Williams seemed to have a pretty solid year at age 38, 39 and 40.

the fact of the matter is steriods have been around for decades, 10,000+ baseball players have had access to them, and not one of them, with or with out the steriods has come close to what Barry is doing. Its just a lazy excuse to explain away what we don't understand.


He did but those years were nowhere close to his best seasons. Bonds last few seasons tower over anything that he had done in his career up to that point.
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Postby ramble2 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:14 pm

Go wrveres! Free Barry Bonds!

Lofunzo, you're right that Bonds' last few seasons have been his best. But it wasn't like he was a slacker earlier in his career.

Consider, too, that his best years have all come since the move to Pac Bell (oh, excuse me, SBECCCH Park). Pac Bell was basically designed for a player like Bonds. Literally! I believe the Giants had to even get permission from the league office for the extra short right field fence. Something about there being a Bay there ...

The problem with all the steroid accusations is that there are always simpler explanations available. Not the least of which is that Bonds is the best player of his generation and is continuously working on improving his game. So to jump on the steroid bandwagon is to be extremely ungenerous to the man. I believe that is wrveres' point about Bonds' good baseball citizenship (relation with the press not withstanding). He's earned the right to the benefit of the doubt.
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