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Some Facts About Barry Bonds

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Postby drunkenmonkey » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:10 pm

It's never going to happen, but if it were me and I were in Bonds' situation, I'd say screw the player's union and take a drug test (that is of course if I were really innocent). It strikes me as humorous that all these players (i.e. Sosa and Sheffield) are saying "I'll be the first one to take a drug test," and when a reporter holds out a cup, they fly off the handle and claim the union won't allow it. I don't understand why the union (which is after all another name for the players themselves) would be so upset to allow players to take voluntary drug tests to clear their name. I don't buy this crap answer that it infringes their rights and would make it easier for the owners to force mandatory tests. What employer in the country can't require their employees to take a drug test as a hiring and retention practice. Baseball is the only one that I know of.

The only reason, in my mind, that the union is fighting the drug testing so hard, is that they know damn well that steroids and/or illegal drugs are rampant in the major league. So until some of these stars start putting their piss where their mouth is (not how it sounds), yes, I'm going to assume they have something to hide.
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Postby Madison » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:12 pm

drunkenmonkey wrote:What employer in the country can't require their employees to take a drug test as a hiring and retention practice. Baseball is the only one that I know of.


;-D

Yet another reason why the union is a bunch of hog wash.
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Postby Hbj79 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:36 pm

Here is my main problem with the accusations against Bonds:
They basically rest on the fact that he has gain so much size and strength over the last (lets say 12 years). If anyone knows anything about weightlifting they know that it is possible to gain 1 pound of muscle a month by working out and eating a high protein based diet. Some would say as high as 1.5 pounds (a bit ubsurd) but no one would disagree that it is possible to gain .5 pounds of muscle a month.

Now I am going to be conservative and assume .5 pounds a month (The reason I say conservative is that we have to remember that Bonds has a gym in his house, personal cooks, and nothing to do but get huge [working out is basically his job]).

We know he works out alot and we can assume he eats very well. The truth is .5 pounds a month could be easily gained.

1 year x .5 pounds a month =6 pounds
6 pounds x 12 years = 72 pounds
Bonds 12 years ago + 72 pounds = a monster

Even if we said .3 pounds (very low). it would still be 43 pounds of weight gain.


I could take any person on this board and if they were willing to dedicate their entire life for the next 12 years to gaining muscle (and they provided me with unlimited financial resources). I can provide you with a steroid free person who will be ready for a magazine cover.
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:50 pm

I'm with Grouperman.

A big chunk of the sportsworld seems to have indicted, tried, and convicted Bonds.

Let's slow the hell down. Not only has his trainer not been tried or convicted, but even if he were that wouldn't necessarily mean that Bonds took an illegal substance from the trainer.

BTW the crim professor's take on the grand jury was correct. While grand juries (rather than preliminary hearings) are used in several states they provide carte blanche to the prosecutions side of the story. The grand jury hears arguments from the prosecuting attorney ONLY. No defense is provided. Based on the information and evidence provided by the prosecution the jury will decide whether or not to indict, and it is quite rare for a grand jury to refuse to indict for absence of probable cause.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:51 pm

TheRawDAWG wrote:Couple other things, Andro is not an illegal substance so McGwire didn't do anything illegal during his home run record. (well that we know of anyway). Also, McGwire was huge even when he was a rookie. He is just a BIG guy. And he was always a big time power hitter challenging Ruth for HRs per AB for most of his career. Bonds wasn't hitting 40-73 HRs in less than 450 ABs when he was younger and in the 'Prime' of his career.


Word. I was gonna say basically the same thing.

TownDrunk wrote:Roger Maris:

1959/16
1960/39
1961/61
1962/33
1963/23

Steroids were rampant in 61, eh?

:-D


Now, that is just silly. We are comparing someone who had a great season and someone who has had the best seasons of his career as he approached 40 years old. Please tell me another player in any sport that had his best seasons at that point. I am not saying whether he did or didn't do steroids. What I am saying is that he used to be able to be gotten out high and tight and now there is no strike that can consistently get him out. His bat speed is faster than ever. I repeat. I have never seen an athlete have his best years this late in his career. If Barry had 1 great year or didn't break any records, no one would really care.

People need to remember that the MLBPA works for the players and not the other way around. If the players are so concerned with no one having a competitive edge by taking sateroids, then they need to tell Fehr that they demand that the players get tested. All that they ever do is give lip-service to this.
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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:53 pm

SAN FRANCISCO - Lawyers for two of the men accused of participating in a steroid-distribution ring said Friday that baseball slugger Barry Bonds "never took anything illegal," and actually rejected a questionable substance at the heart of the government's case.

The defense of Bonds, who has been accused by at least one fellow major leaguer of taking steroids, came outside court after a pair of hearings in the case against four men charged with providing performance-enhancing substances to dozens of athletes.


"Barry Bonds never took anything illegal. He declined to take any of these illegal substances," said Tony Serra, the attorney for Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson.


Serra said Bonds "was offered substances via the schedule," referring to a calendar seized in a search of Anderson's home that listed doses and scheduling of substances taken by the athletes he trains.

Serra said Bonds was offered something that prosecutors have referred to in documents as "a 'clear' steroid-like substance" — apparently the newly unmasked steroid THG. Serra said Bonds was offered that substance "by two or three people" through Anderson, but declined to try it.


Serra would not identify those other people, but said they also were involved in the case and that the substance had "to emanate out of the lab, I would think."


Serra was referring to the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, whose founder Victor Conte and vice president James Valente are also charged with Anderson. Track coach Remi Korchemny is the fourth man indicted. All have pleaded innocent and are free on bail.


Bonds frequently has denied steroid use and no athlete has been charged in the case.


Conte's attorney also said that Bonds, one of dozens of athletes who testified before the grand jury that indicted the four men, had done nothing wrong.


"My client knows of no illegal activity that has ever been done by Barry Bonds," said lawyer Robert Holley. "(Conte) would like us to go on record because of the rumors and innuendoes."


Colorado Rockies (news) reliever Turk Wendell said this week it was "clear just seeing his body" that Bonds was taking steroids.


Serra said Anderson trained seven professional athletes — Bonds and five other major leaguers, as well as a pro football player. He would not divulge their names, or say whether Anderson continues to work with them.



Just helping to free Barry Bonds from the chains of "ignorance" .....
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Postby TownDrunk » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:53 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
TheRawDAWG wrote:Couple other things, Andro is not an illegal substance so McGwire didn't do anything illegal during his home run record. (well that we know of anyway). Also, McGwire was huge even when he was a rookie. He is just a BIG guy. And he was always a big time power hitter challenging Ruth for HRs per AB for most of his career. Bonds wasn't hitting 40-73 HRs in less than 450 ABs when he was younger and in the 'Prime' of his career.


Word. I was gonna say basically the same thing.

TownDrunk wrote:Roger Maris:

1959/16
1960/39
1961/61
1962/33
1963/23

Steroids were rampant in 61, eh?

:-D


Now, that is just silly. We are comparing someone who had a great season and someone who has had the best seasons of his career as he approached 40 years old. Please tell me another player in any sport that had his best seasons at that point. I am not saying whether he did or didn't do steroids. What I am saying is that he used to be able to be gotten out high and tight and now there is no strike that can consistently get him out. His bat speed is faster than ever. I repeat. I have never seen an athlete have his best years this late in his career. If Barry had 1 great year or didn't break any records, no one would really care.

People need to remember that the MLBPA works for the players and not the other way around. If the players are so concerned with no one having a competitive edge by taking sateroids, then they need to tell Fehr that they demand that the players get tested. All that they ever do is give lip-service to this.


It's called sarcasm. Perhaps you should try to grasp the concept.
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Postby TownDrunk » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:55 pm

wrveres wrote:
SAN FRANCISCO - Lawyers for two of the men accused of participating in a steroid-distribution ring said Friday that baseball slugger Barry Bonds "never took anything illegal," and actually rejected a questionable substance at the heart of the government's case.

The defense of Bonds, who has been accused by at least one fellow major leaguer of taking steroids, came outside court after a pair of hearings in the case against four men charged with providing performance-enhancing substances to dozens of athletes.


"Barry Bonds never took anything illegal. He declined to take any of these illegal substances," said Tony Serra, the attorney for Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson.


Serra said Bonds "was offered substances via the schedule," referring to a calendar seized in a search of Anderson's home that listed doses and scheduling of substances taken by the athletes he trains.

Serra said Bonds was offered something that prosecutors have referred to in documents as "a 'clear' steroid-like substance" — apparently the newly unmasked steroid THG. Serra said Bonds was offered that substance "by two or three people" through Anderson, but declined to try it.


Serra would not identify those other people, but said they also were involved in the case and that the substance had "to emanate out of the lab, I would think."


Serra was referring to the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, whose founder Victor Conte and vice president James Valente are also charged with Anderson. Track coach Remi Korchemny is the fourth man indicted. All have pleaded innocent and are free on bail.


Bonds frequently has denied steroid use and no athlete has been charged in the case.


Conte's attorney also said that Bonds, one of dozens of athletes who testified before the grand jury that indicted the four men, had done nothing wrong.


"My client knows of no illegal activity that has ever been done by Barry Bonds," said lawyer Robert Holley. "(Conte) would like us to go on record because of the rumors and innuendoes."


Colorado Rockies (news) reliever Turk Wendell said this week it was "clear just seeing his body" that Bonds was taking steroids.


Serra said Anderson trained seven professional athletes — Bonds and five other major leaguers, as well as a pro football player. He would not divulge their names, or say whether Anderson continues to work with them.



Just helping to free Barry Bonds from the chains of "ignorance" .....


Good luck with that. It's like arguing with a fence post.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:10 pm

TownDrunk wrote:It's called sarcasm. Perhaps you should try to grasp the concept.


Thanks for not knowing me 1 bit yet telling me what I do or don't grasp. :-t
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Postby TownDrunk » Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:14 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
TownDrunk wrote:It's called sarcasm. Perhaps you should try to grasp the concept.


Thanks for not knowing me 1 bit yet telling me what I do or don't grasp. :-t


Thanks for saying that my post was silly without understanding that it was a tongue in cheek post or for not understanding that I posted it up for comic relief. :-t
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