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Some Facts About Barry Bonds

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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:48 pm

The thing is that it is going to take more than Anderson's word to convict anyone. There is going to have to have positive test for steroids.
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Postby djacks » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:51 pm

My, oh, my what are we to do?

Maybe we should take away Bond's home run record (steriods), McGuire's home run record (Andro), Sammy's home run total (corked bat, steriods?) and return the HR record to Maris...

Would that make everyone happy? I had this same basic discussion with a friend a couple of days ago...

While I'm sure there a baseball players on steriods, why would the big-time superstars use them? What would be their motivation? They are already stars making millions. The players I would be suspicious of would be the border-line guys between AAA and the majors...they are the ones that stand to benefit the most. Barry, Giambi, Sheff, Sosa...these guys are great baseball players who be great players with or without steriods.

My other question about steriods is this. How much would steriods really help a baseball player? They would make him stronger obviously but does that make a huge difference in baseball? I would think that hand-eye coordination, bat speed, and mechanics are all much more important than strength.

I don't know if these guys are guilty or not...and quite frankly I don't really care all that much. They workout very hard and take a lot of supplements to help them with their conditioning...but "supplements" are not steriods.
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Postby lesgrant » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:07 pm

What would make me happy is finding out the truth about steroid use in MLB. Period. Don’t worry, we are on our way to that end. It may take a while but it will come out.

Those that require a positive test result from Barry from this record breaking season are people that won’t believe anything. Anyone who requires impossibilities as evidence are people that don’t want to be convinced of it at all. There are many Pete Rose supporters out there that still believe he never bet on baseball, despite a paper trail to the contrary. There are many OJ supporters that cling to the hope he didn’t do it. There will always be Bonds supporters who won’t believe it even if he admits it (see Pete Rose coverage).

No matter what, you can bet there will be more than Anderson’s word that will point to steroid use by MLB players. Anderson’s word alone would not be sufficient to even begin a grand jury probe, much less bring about an indictment.

Why would a big time superstar use steroids?
That one is so easy, I can’t believe you’re asking it. In Barry’s case: earning potential in twilight of his career. Do you think Barry Bonds’ earning potential as an athlete/spokesperson increased or decreased with a home run record under his belt? Do you think his value in retirement in terms of signing autographs, being a spokesperson, or being a broadcaster, increased or decreased with that home run record? How much would it increase or decrease if he broke Hank Aarons’ record? It’s the oldest motivation there is – perpetuating money and fame. The sad and sick thing about it is that there are some athletes in a variety of sports who will risk their lives for one more flash of the camera or million dollar check.

As for the effects of ‘roids on baseball players, that has been addressed before in other threads. Suffice it to say that they will boost performance in any athletic endeavor. That’s why they are banned in just about every level of competition of any sport, including minor league baseball. Testing and enforcement are the only issues in MLB. Ask the players union why they see fit to stonewall that process.

For those who don’t care if Barry or other major athletes are on steroids: Would you care if your son decided to try them after he saw how well they worked for Barry or your daughter decided to use them because Marion Jones broke WR and won gold medals using them? How much will you care about Barry many years after his retirement when his life is shortened because of using this crap?

Selfish fans who don’t care about it now won’t ever care about the very real consequences for their supposed heroes down the line. These fans will just move on to the next superstar to egg onward. Maybe the next superstar in that position will be someone that is close and dear to you, in the same way that Barry is to his family.
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Postby mark8037 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:16 pm

The reason for the sharp spike although seem very reasonable and well thought out one forgets that spikes tend to happen in your prime not towards the end of your career which is the case with Barry. A consistent 35-40 HR guy all of a sudden starts hitting 65-70.

Leaving all that aside, with his PERSONAL TRAINER admiting that he gave steroids to MLB players you have to be very dense to think that he didnt give it to his own guy.

All in all its MLB fault for not cracking down on this years ago. There can be no argument for tainted records being removed coz there were no laws/regulations in baseball banning steroids/drugs. If MLB does make any effort towards denigrating these records, which I very much doubt, no court would uphold their view.
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Postby KolbSaves » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:26 pm

reasonable posts on both sides but I have to say I side with lesgrant
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Postby mtarail » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:29 pm

Great post.

The last I heard the presumption was: innocent until proven guilty. The assumption by a lot of baseball fans seems to be just the opposite.

My favorite post on this site however was a series of pictures comparing pictures of Vernon Wells last year to this year, with insightful comments like: "You see how he looks all 'roided up' in this picture?" LOL
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Postby Spike » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:44 pm

Uh, steriods don't help with your batting eye, but it certainly CAN help with bat speed. (There ARE steroids that can help the "fast-twitch" fibers.)

Since bat speed can increase, and greater strength can result in balls hit simply going farther, the "Well, steriods don't help hit a baseball." argument falls flat, imho.
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Postby mtarail » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:02 pm

So he was taking steroids in 1993 when he was still thin and hitting 40 jacks? LOL.
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:04 pm

The funny thing about Wells, and I know this more cuz I'm from Toronto, is last year he was chubby. You see a picture of him with his shirt off last year he still had a roll around his gut. This year he's cut to shit. NO FAT and thats what he lost. He's still the same size in his legs and shoulders. He's not even a huge guy. I don't know why people would be pointing the finger at him. he's young and maturing. It's funny cause like I read over on Sportsline, any other year if a guy came into camp after working hard in the offseason and losing weight he would be praised. This year he is being accused of taking steroids. Stupid in my opinion. There isn't the evidence around Wells like there is around Barry, Sheff, Giambi and.....shit I'm forgeting some people. oh well you get the picture.

Couple other things, Andro is not an illegal substance so McGwire didn't do anything illegal during his home run record. (well that we know of anyway). Also, McGwire was huge even when he was a rookie. He is just a BIG guy. And he was always a big time power hitter challenging Ruth for HRs per AB for most of his career. Bonds wasn't hitting 40-73 HRs in less than 450 ABs when he was younger and in the 'Prime' of his career.
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Postby Spike » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:04 pm

mtarail wrote:So he was taking steroids in 1993 when he was still thin and hitting 40 jacks? LOL.


So the size of his head increased due to working out?
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