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Some Facts About Barry Bonds

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Some Facts About Barry Bonds

Postby TownDrunk » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:46 am

There has been a lot of steroid talk on this board, mainly about Bonds. A fellow Giants fan made this, and I asked him if I could post it here. He agreed. So here it is folks, enjoy and feel free to bash me and all the other Giants fans who agree with this.

From "ToddCommish:"


"OK, I've said similar things on some of the other threads, but I've never seen anyone compile a timeline of Barry's homers along with reasons for spikes or declines (mainly because the media wants it to be a chemical/criminal reason).

YEAR AB HR BB
1986 413 16 65
1987 551 25 54
1988 538 24 72
1989 580 19 93

OK, nothing special here. He's established himself as a 20-25 HR threat. Batting mostly leadoff during this time.

1990 519 33 93
1991 510 25 107
1992 473 34 127

Now he's batting 5th behind VanSlyke and Bonilla. His walks start to go up because now he has weaker hitters behind him.

1993 539 46 126

Ahhhh, he comes home. Why the bump? Ummm, one BIG reason - Expansion. Especially to Colorado. Another reason might be... Happiness? Closer to his best friend, hitting coach... DAD?

1994 391 37 74

Strike year. Who remembers who led the majors in homers that year? Answer: Matt Williams, batting fourth behind Barry.

1995 506 33 120
1996 517 42 151
1997 532 40 145

OK, so now he's fairly well established as a 40hr, 140 walk guy at the age of 30-33, typically peak years for a hitter. A good career progression for a great player. Plus, in 1997, the Giants picked up a utility player from Cleveland named Jose Vizcaino. Oh, and some other guy named Kent.

1998 552 37 130

The McGwire/Sosa duel and the juiced baseball. Andro vs. Human Growth Hormone. This bugs me no end. These guys are PROVEN or ADMITTED cheaters (Andro/Cork), and Barry has never been busted for anything.

Also, realignment brought the Brewers to the National League, and expansion brought in two more teams (and 20+ new pitchers previously not good enough for the majors)

Another key thing happened in 1998. Barry switched BATS to the maple bats from Canada. Not enough is made of this IMHO. Since the maple bat is more durable and less likely to break, Barry says he uses the same bat for BP that he does during games.

1999 355 34 73
2000 480 49 117

And Kent won the MVP this year? Please. Barry has a way of making the players batting around him much much better.

2001 476 73 177

The only year that is anomalous here. But also the only year when Bonds was protected by the REIGNING MVP! Don't forget that Houston moved from the spacious Astrodome to Enron (Homerun) Field.

2002 403 46 198
2003 390 45 148

These years have about the same performance established in 1999. The only year that stands out is 2001 in his career progression. Remember, his BATTING AVERAGE has bounced between .290 and .320 for most of his career, only jumping during the past three years and I haven't heard anybody claiming that steroids helped Barry's batting average.

So, what we have is a player who has established himself as a power hitter (40+ hrs) improving his pitch selection (batting average going up, as well as walks). Two expansion teams have been added TO HIS DIVISION, one of those in a known launching pad. Expansion has added mediocre pitching, technology has improved his bat, the baseball is juiced, and his production did NOT drop during a year of steroid testing (unlike, say, Sammy Sosa, Lance Berkman, Jason Giambi, and Pat Burrell).

And the press is basing all their speculation on added bulk (normal for a guy entering his mid-to-late thirties) and some very questionable associations with known steroid dealers (ok, so this looks bad), and ignoring ALL THE OTHER FACTS.

This is probably the first and only place you'll see the facts broken down like this. And that, my friends, is the problem."
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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:08 am

Great read .. Tell your friend he has an ally .. :-)


Free Barry Bonds from the chains of the ignorant ... ;-D
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Postby wrveres » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:33 am

Don't forget that Houston moved from the spacious Astrodome to Enron (Homerun) Field.


this didn't have any effect though. Barry has only one homerun there since the 2001,but having the National League MVP batting behind him is greatly overlooked.



almost forgot ... this is Hypocrisy at its best ...
The McGwire/Sosa duel and the juiced baseball. Andro vs. Human Growth Hormone. This bugs me no end. These guys are PROVEN or ADMITTED cheaters (Andro/Cork), and Barry has never been busted for anything.

I am not sure if Barry has ever been for suspended for anything in baseball, I know Pujols has. ;-7
I am also pretty sure Barry has never been arrested for anything outside of baseball either.
But the press and the 'sheeple' have already tried and convicted Barry Bonds.
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Postby colour wolf » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:22 am

Great posts. Thanks for the interesting reading. ;-D
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Postby 1 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:24 am

great post.....thanks for that...v.interesting read. First time ive ever seen Bonds analysed like that........i think u and ur friend are 100% right.
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Postby prodpaul » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:32 am

Ditto thanks for the post. Great read!
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Postby KULCAT » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:33 am

If he didnt get walked so much he´d still get 60 hr´s so i think after the jump to 73 he has remained at that level and that why his stats have raised eyebrowns. Anybody that is not at least a little bit suspicious at what happened after the 94 season is pretty ignorant. Guys before that, like Bonds, won the hr crown with less than 40 hr´s. If this jump had been made in say a 10 year span i dont think there would have not been any questions but it happen just way too quickly and way too often. It was a disgrace that baseball players did not want to get tested for steroids till the players associations finally conceded into that last year. The were fighting it all the way. It was great moment in baseball history but the players earn all this talk trying to get away with not getting tested so that made me think twice. With that said i really hope it turns out Bonds never did stereoids cuase he has gotten much more crap that other guys who i would be suspicious too just because he´s not friendly. Wich i never cared about.

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Postby Madison » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:12 pm

Nice read. Tell your friend thanks for writing it and thank you for posting it. ;-D

Just to make sure it's known, I have no idea if Barry uses steroids or not. I've seen decent arguments both ways, but nothing to show proof either way, so I don't judge him on that.

Now get rid of the armor and make him stand in the box and we'll see what kind of numbers he puts up. ;-) We've already had that discussion many times though. :-D
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Postby lesgrant » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:13 pm

That is an excellent breakdown and statistical defense of Barry Bonds.

If we were having this debate a year ago, I might buy it. Unfortunately for Barry’s fans and supporters, that ship sailed during the grand jury probe and subsequent indictments. Sorry to be the party-pooper for this Barry love-in.

From the grand jury we know so far that:

BALCO and Anderson have been indicted for distributing illegal steroids

Bonds is a BALCO client and has received money for his endorsement of the company

Anderson (Barry’s lifelong friend and trainer) has told federal investigators he has distributed these illegal steroids to baseball players. Apparently there is a list.

Enough probable cause has been shown by prosecutors to subpoena Bonds as a witness to illegal steroid distribution. He’s not an executive of the company, so he probably isn’t linked in any administrative capacity. He’s not a scientist, so he’s not a witness to the development. He can only be a witness to the distribution and/or consumption.

Bonds has admitted to taking supplements from Anderson which were unmarked. Who in their right mind (especially someone who makes millions of dollars off of their body) would take any medication or supplement without knowing what it is, unless they don’t want to know what it is?

While none of the broad points above conclusively paint Bonds as a ‘roid user, they are much more relevant to this issue than a statistical analysis and the ensuing speculation as to the roots of those stats. Looking at stats, at this point, is moot. Give it up.

The Bonds supporters on this site love to gleefully claim that there is no way we will ever know if Bonds was juicing. They are dead wrong. Pete Rose, when he placed bets from his clubhouse, assumed that no one will ever know conclusively that he bet on baseball. Bonds will get nabbed the same way Pete did. From the length of time this grand jury probe has taken, it is safe to assume that there is plenty of evidence that the state has against BALCO and Anderson, including company records of development, testing, and distribution. There will be witnesses – scientists who helped develop these products, doctors who oversaw testing, people whom the products were tested on, executives who authorized it and, yes, those players who are on that magic list. I wouldn’t be surprised if Anderson himself turns state’s evidence to save himself from jail.

No matter what happens, Bonds and other athletes will be called to testify. When he takes the fifth, I wonder what statistical analysis you will use to explain that. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Barry Bonds is totally clean and clear from this scandal.

Your statistics will mean absolutely nothing in a court of law.

And to moan and groan about the media being unfair to him is ridiculous. They gave him the spotlight and the benefit of the doubt for the entirety of his record breaking season. The door swings both ways. If there is any chance that the single season home run king achieved his record by using illegal performance enhancing drugs, that’s a huge story. It is a much bigger story than Barry breaking the record in the first place. Records are broken all the time, but not by cheaters.

Many have also complained that he is being unfairly singled out. Giambi is on the list too, so why doesn’t he get the same headlines and attention? As a partisan Yankee fan, I believe that Giambi deserves the exact same punishment as Barry Bonds. But, the attention is deservedly focused on Bonds. Giambi didn’t break a home run record. It’s like if you have two authors, both guilty of plagiarism. One wins a Pulitzer and is a best-seller while the other has only moderate to average book sales. Who do you think the spotlight is going to be on? Was Mili Vanilli the only music artists to front as if they actually performed on a record as credited. Heck no! Credits on records are fudged all the time in the music industry. But, they were the only ones to get a Grammy for it. Hence, when it was revealed that they were lip-syncing they went down hard. Anyone who wins an award or breaks a record will get much more attention than someone who doesn’t, even though they may be guilty of the same crimes along the way.

Time will prove your “objective” statistical analysis to be merely wishful thinking.
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Postby kvillantz18 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:36 pm

lesgrant wrote:That is an excellent breakdown and statistical defense of Barry Bonds.

If we were having this debate a year ago, I might buy it. Unfortunately for Barry’s fans and supporters, that ship sailed during the grand jury probe and subsequent indictments. Sorry to be the party-pooper for this Barry love-in.

From the grand jury we know so far that:

BALCO and Anderson have been indicted for distributing illegal steroids

Bonds is a BALCO client and has received money for his endorsement of the company

Anderson (Barry’s lifelong friend and trainer) has told federal investigators he has distributed these illegal steroids to baseball players. Apparently there is a list.

Enough probable cause has been shown by prosecutors to subpoena Bonds as a witness to illegal steroid distribution. He’s not an executive of the company, so he probably isn’t linked in any administrative capacity. He’s not a scientist, so he’s not a witness to the development. He can only be a witness to the distribution and/or consumption.

Bonds has admitted to taking supplements from Anderson which were unmarked. Who in their right mind (especially someone who makes millions of dollars off of their body) would take any medication or supplement without knowing what it is, unless they don’t want to know what it is?

While none of the broad points above conclusively paint Bonds as a ‘roid user, they are much more relevant to this issue than a statistical analysis and the ensuing speculation as to the roots of those stats. Looking at stats, at this point, is moot. Give it up.

The Bonds supporters on this site love to gleefully claim that there is no way we will ever know if Bonds was juicing. They are dead wrong. Pete Rose, when he placed bets from his clubhouse, assumed that no one will ever know conclusively that he bet on baseball. Bonds will get nabbed the same way Pete did. From the length of time this grand jury probe has taken, it is safe to assume that there is plenty of evidence that the state has against BALCO and Anderson, including company records of development, testing, and distribution. There will be witnesses – scientists who helped develop these products, doctors who oversaw testing, people whom the products were tested on, executives who authorized it and, yes, those players who are on that magic list. I wouldn’t be surprised if Anderson himself turns state’s evidence to save himself from jail.

No matter what happens, Bonds and other athletes will be called to testify. When he takes the fifth, I wonder what statistical analysis you will use to explain that. You are all kidding yourselves if you think Barry Bonds is totally clean and clear from this scandal.

Your statistics will mean absolutely nothing in a court of law.

And to moan and groan about the media being unfair to him is ridiculous. They gave him the spotlight and the benefit of the doubt for the entirety of his record breaking season. The door swings both ways. If there is any chance that the single season home run king achieved his record by using illegal performance enhancing drugs, that’s a huge story. It is a much bigger story than Barry breaking the record in the first place. Records are broken all the time, but not by cheaters.

Many have also complained that he is being unfairly singled out. Giambi is on the list too, so why doesn’t he get the same headlines and attention? As a partisan Yankee fan, I believe that Giambi deserves the exact same punishment as Barry Bonds. But, the attention is deservedly focused on Bonds. Giambi didn’t break a home run record. It’s like if you have two authors, both guilty of plagiarism. One wins a Pulitzer and is a best-seller while the other has only moderate to average book sales. Who do you think the spotlight is going to be on? Was Mili Vanilli the only music artists to front as if they actually performed on a record as credited. Heck no! Credits on records are fudged all the time in the music industry. But, they were the only ones to get a Grammy for it. Hence, when it was revealed that they were lip-syncing they went down hard. Anyone who wins an award or breaks a record will get much more attention than someone who doesn’t, even though they may be guilty of the same crimes along the way.

Time will prove your “objective” statistical analysis to be merely wishful thinking.

Great Post! ;-D
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