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Postby johnsotyler » Thu May 15, 2008 11:39 am

We are thinking of switching up our H2H non-keeper league to a keeper league and we are discussing whether or not we should change the categories. Right now we are running a 7x6 with:

R HR RBI SB AVG OBP K

IP W S ERA WHIP K/9

I see two problems with our categories 1) there should be balance between the hitting and the pitching categories so we should either take out one of the hitting categories or add a pitching category (Holds has been discussed) 2)OBP should be walks because it is double counting high average players in ways and penalizing low average players.


What does everyone think about our categories and my thoughts on them????

Any suggestions???

Thanks a lot!
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Re: categories

Postby noseeum » Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 pm

I don't think you should be using both BA and OBP. I like BA and BB or just OBP.

I don't like K's for hitters either. Why is a strikeout worse than a ground out for fantasy purposes? A K already hurts your BA, so you're kind of double counting.

Not a fan of IP either because it's just a pure counting stat that requires little skill for the pitchers. You minimize the impact by switching to K/9 instead of K.

You're really duplicating skills in a lot of these stats. If you're showing the same thing, you don't need the stat, IMO.

Here's what we use for 6X6: R, HR, RBI, SB, BB, AVG, W, SV, K, HLD, ERA, WHIP

They all pretty much represent a different skill or element of the game. That should be the focus of each stat you add. If it doesn't add something new, leave it out.
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Re: categories

Postby Matthias » Thu May 15, 2008 4:45 pm

First, I agree you should take out K's for hitters. There's other value from hitting a ball into play versus K'ing (you can get an RBI, a sac fly doesn't hurt your AVG, you can score or a Run or SB if you get onto base, etc.)

Second, I actually like having both AVG and OBP. Not making an out is about 1.8x more valuable than slugging (see, for example, here). So "double-counting" AVG is actually statistically defensible since it's almost twice as important (at least via OBP), and definitely more of a bell-weather of a quality player than team-influenced stats such as Runs and RBIs.

I also don't mind including IP in your stats. Otherwise, it would be pretty reliever-friendly, too much so, IMO. Leaving in IP gives some extra incentive to use starters vs. relievers or set-up men but your 3 ratio stats should be enough to discourage streaming.

If you wanted to really rework your stats, what I like (and use) is a 6x6...
Hitters: AVG, OBP, HR, R+RBI-HR, SB-CS, and TB (Total Bases)
Pitchers: RAA (ERA but includes unearned runs), WHIP, K's, IP, Starter's Wins - Starter's Losses, and Saves + Holds - Blown Saves + Reliever's Wins - Reliever's Losses.

But if you just chopped off K's for hitters I think it would be fine.
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Re: categories

Postby Merlin401 » Thu May 15, 2008 11:41 pm

johnsotyler wrote:We are thinking of switching up our H2H non-keeper league to a keeper league and we are discussing whether or not we should change the categories. Right now we are running a 7x6 with:

R HR RBI SB AVG OBP K

IP W S ERA WHIP K/9

I see two problems with our categories 1) there should be balance between the hitting and the pitching categories so we should either take out one of the hitting categories or add a pitching category (Holds has been discussed) 2)OBP should be walks because it is double counting high average players in ways and penalizing low average players.


What does everyone think about our categories and my thoughts on them????

Any suggestions???

Thanks a lot!


Actually I like unbalanced categories. If you're starting 9 position players and 7 pitchers, I kind of like having more batting categories.

I agree with the rest. Get rid of Ks. Add BBs. I kind of find IP an interesting category as it rewards manager activity and that is always good. You shouldn't have streaming problems anyway since its a keeper league and thats the only negative I see in IP. Holds are too random. I'm not a fan.
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Re: categories

Postby shawngee03 » Fri May 23, 2008 4:47 pm

ive always been a fan of OPS vs OBP...to me its a little more fun

i must warn you about using holds though....every league im in uses holds and i am starting to not like it. as soon as someone figures out that closers dont matter anymore, as you can just get a bunch of holders to offset the saves, both cats become meaningless. we figured this out 2 years ago, and now closers are worthless. each team either has all closers or all holders...something i am not a fan of

and ive always like HR allowed for pitching. since you dont have L this helps offset the IP
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Re: categories

Postby Shermer » Sat May 24, 2008 6:18 pm

shawngee03 wrote:i must warn you about using holds though....every league im in uses holds and i am starting to not like it. as soon as someone figures out that closers dont matter anymore, as you can just get a bunch of holders to offset the saves, both cats become meaningless. we figured this out 2 years ago, and now closers are worthless. each team either has all closers or all holders...something i am not a fan of



Thanks for that insight. I was thinking of adding Holds for next season but now I don't think so.
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Re: categories

Postby Eagle Baseball » Sun May 25, 2008 12:18 pm

Actually I like unbalanced categories. If you're starting 9 position players and 7 pitchers, I kind of like having more batting categories. I understand your thinking but in a keeper you need some P's to be keepers. If you value hitting above pitching you will have everyone keeping all hitters. imo you need some keeper P's in your league even if I don't keep P's myself.
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