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Booting saves for holds...

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Booting saves for holds...

Postby JPCicciarelli » Mon May 12, 2008 8:50 pm

I am playing around with the idea of giving up on the saves category and pursuing holds. Everyone seems to freak on saves in my league while holds go basically neglected. I believe I may be able to pull off some nice trades by dangling closers out there. What are your thoughts on this strategy? In a league that counts:

W L SV HR K GIDP HLD ERA and WHIP

How do you see the other categories being affected by a strategy like this? Have you ever come across a player that has done this? My current closers are Lyon, Rauch & Acosta. Not a strong group of arms to close out the season.
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Re: Booting saves for holds...

Postby MTUCache » Mon May 12, 2008 10:34 pm

Need a bit more data... H2H? Roto? 9x9 correct? Min/Max Innings Pitched (per week/season)?

Assuming that everybody is going to pitch near the same amount of innings pitched, counting categories like W, L, K, HR, GIDP should all be relatively equal.

Guys with top-tier closers are obviously going to excel in not only SV, but also have an advantage in ERA/WHIP over all those except the owners who have 3-5 ace starters.

But, if you're one of those owners who just has mediocre closers, who aren't going to give you an advantage in ERA/WHIP, then I don't really see any harm in dumping saves. With 9 pitching categories you've got plenty of room to make up for it, as long as you can fill your MR spots with guys who will give you an advantage in several categories (not just Holds).

If you can get high-market value for your middle-tier closers, I don't have a problem with this. If all you're going to do is trade mediocre closers for mediocre setup-men, you're not really helping yourself.
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Re: Booting saves for holds...

Postby AKhomebrewer » Tue May 13, 2008 2:47 am

What MTU said about more info ...

The more categories you have, the better the chances you can get away with a punt. And this equation goes up exponentially in H2H (vs. roto, where you're always punished by a '1' in any category).

If you can gain value at needed positions/stat categories by dealing the closers, and if you have solid ratio/K MRs who will keep you in the holds hunt, this seems like a reasonable consideration in a high-cat league like yours. But only if there's real value coming back. Don't dump closers just to dump them.
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Re: Booting saves for holds...

Postby shawngee03 » Tue May 13, 2008 3:49 pm

yes, get rid of all your closers. especially since you said people overvalue them. it seems like all my leagues every year(h2h) include holds.

like ive said in previous threads...it really devalues saves and holds. what you can easily do is have just all holders. thsi will allow you to win holds every week and lose saves(assuming h2h). so what....who cares. i dont like it, but adding holds as a cat allows this. the only bad part coming when you face another onlky holds guy, then teh two of you are fighting for that one point. so to offset this you can keep one closer on staff to try and win that week w 1 sv.

and yes this is only advisable if you can get good value for your closers, as they are closers for a reason(unless you are in det or clev). like already said dont dump just to dump.

and to jump to next year's draft...if you still have holds the best thing to do is not draft any closers, and get the good holds guys starting in like rd 20. its awesome to see guys waste their top 10 picks w closers, when you are getting guys for free that will offset that point they get from winning saves
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Re: Booting saves for holds...

Postby charliebrown2 » Tue May 13, 2008 5:58 pm

Im really considering doing this next year...i think the effects across the pitching cats should be relatively the same...a closer has just as much chance at giving up 2-3 runs during any giving outing as a true setup/holds man.

like someone said, you win holds and lose saves....oh wells, 1 for 1...it's not like youre giving up a power bat where your Rs, HRs, and RBIs go down as well.

Also, hold/setup man are WAY cheaper than closers during draft day. You can spend 2-3 picks on quality SP or hitters instead of paying the premium for closers.
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Re: Booting saves for holds...

Postby Ursa » Tue May 13, 2008 6:57 pm

I've actually done this this year. I ignored closers altogether and drafted four holds guys. It's working quite well and the biggest plus is that I don't have to read that horrific farrago of nonsense, speculation and panic known as the Cafe 2008 Closers Thread. :-)
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