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Getting Lil Madison to School

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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby AussieDodger » Mon May 12, 2008 11:32 pm

RocketsDWM wrote:Some kids should not be forced to go to school beyond a certain age. Let them go to a technical school or begin work.


Correct correct and double correct. ;-D
You can always go back and get some sort of qualification later if you find the need.
That's what I'm doing ;-D
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby Madison » Tue May 13, 2008 1:47 am

Tavish wrote:
Madison wrote:#2. Schools need to be more strict. Bring back real punishments instead of the coddling crap they do now. They should be able to do whatever is necessary to ensure a safe school, and a real education to the youth of America. And I mean really teach, not what is currently considered teaching (and I don't blame teachers/schools 100% for the crap that is currently called an education, the federal government holds a large percentage of the blame too).

This is the biggest problem I have with truancy laws. Forcing high school kids to go to school who have no desire and do basically whatever they can to ditch annoys me. Instead of teachers teaching and the admins dealing with safety/security they are playing parole cop for kids who often aren't going to do anything except disrupt class when they are there.


Good plan. We'd never have a shortage of burger-flippers that way.
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby curious_george_43545 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:21 pm

Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:
Madison wrote:#2. Schools need to be more strict. Bring back real punishments instead of the coddling crap they do now. They should be able to do whatever is necessary to ensure a safe school, and a real education to the youth of America. And I mean really teach, not what is currently considered teaching (and I don't blame teachers/schools 100% for the crap that is currently called an education, the federal government holds a large percentage of the blame too).

This is the biggest problem I have with truancy laws. Forcing high school kids to go to school who have no desire and do basically whatever they can to ditch annoys me. Instead of teachers teaching and the admins dealing with safety/security they are playing parole cop for kids who often aren't going to do anything except disrupt class when they are there.


Good plan. We'd never have a shortage of burger-flippers that way.


Honestly the kids that ditch school constantly without their parents consent, most likely will never amount to anything beyond burger flipping anyway. Even when they do attend school they actually try hard not to learn. I guarantee I hate school as much as they do, but I atleast went everyday. Course, my parents would be furious if I ever skipped and I have to be near death to stay home from school. (Pretty sure I missed 2 days in 4 years of high school) I think more has to be done once kids get to school, because I honestly slept through some classes and constantly did homework for the next class instead of paying attention and probably only did 5 hours of work at home for my entire Senior Year and graduated with a 3.9 GPA so. I'd try to do the least work possible and shoot for an 89.5% and that's more work than the majority of the people in my high school probably did and it's actually a decent school.
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:47 pm

curious_george_43545 wrote:
Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:This is the biggest problem I have with truancy laws. Forcing high school kids to go to school who have no desire and do basically whatever they can to ditch annoys me. Instead of teachers teaching and the admins dealing with safety/security they are playing parole cop for kids who often aren't going to do anything except disrupt class when they are there.


Good plan. We'd never have a shortage of burger-flippers that way.


Honestly the kids that ditch school constantly without their parents consent, most likely will never amount to anything beyond burger flipping anyway.

I'd say "I wish this were true" but I truthfully don't -- nor is it true. There are countless people nationwide who are wildly successful without conforming to our nation's definition of 'education' or the educational system. They go on to become successful inventors, entrepreneurs, business owners, and other figureheads. The formalized American education system is just one way in which people can find success, though there are plenty of other routes, whether or not people (your teachers included) want to admit it or not.

Even when they do attend school they actually try hard not to learn. I guarantee I hate school as much as they do, but I atleast went everyday.

Why do you hate school?

Course, my parents would be furious if I ever skipped and I have to be near death to stay home from school. (Pretty sure I missed 2 days in 4 years of high school) I think more has to be done once kids get to school, because I honestly slept through some classes and constantly did homework for the next class instead of paying attention and probably only did 5 hours of work at home for my entire Senior Year and graduated with a 3.9 GPA so. I'd try to do the least work possible and shoot for an 89.5% and that's more work than the majority of the people in my high school probably did and it's actually a decent school.

There's a common mis-conception that a lot of 'work' must be done at home in order for proper education to take place. Sure, there are a lot of learners who necessitate additional practice or guidance outside of the classroom in order to succeed at their goal in school; but for others, this couldn't be further from the case. The newer waves of teachers are bringing with them a vast array of new tools and skills into education, and while we've all had terrible teachers in our day, and we and our children may have them in the future, I can tell you first hand as a Masters Student who is Certified in Secondary Mathematics, it's not because they aren't being educated well.

Also, the blame cannot be laid on your teachers or the educational institute because you "tried to do the least work possible". The bottom line is you learned the material, as illustrated by your 3.9 GPA. At the end of the day -- that's what matters to me. There's a large debate in education with respect to things like seat time, effort, so on and so forth, versus comprehension and mastery of material, and while high marks come easy to some, such as yourself, others certainly have a more difficult road to travel -- whether they travel it or remain idle is an entirely different story.
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby curious_george_43545 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:18 pm

That's true, but the vast majority of kids who don't go to school, and when they do go they just get in fights and get sent to the office, tend not to do well in the rest of their life. All of them, no, but you can't tell me not successfully graduating from atleast high school is a good career move. And I don't hate school, but I just find it so boring either learning information that I personally already know or that I don't care about. There were a few classes that I enjoyed, for example art class, as I am going to major in graphic design I enjoyed going to that class and actually tried to learn. For my other classes - I tried to do the least work possible while just relying on my intelligence to maintain good grades, which really isn't very hard because most of the material is extremely easy. The majority of tests if you study the class period before and use common sense during the test, eliminating answers and using questions to answer other questions you can do well without actually learning the information. Is that the best approach to take toward your education, no and I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying you can go through high school learning very little and have excellent grades which means there is something wrong with our Education System. And thats the same approach the majority of kids in high school bring.
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby beatdrum » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:26 pm

On this topic, I'm a big proponent of unschooling...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:01 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
curious_george_43545 wrote:Honestly the kids that ditch school constantly without their parents consent, most likely will never amount to anything beyond burger flipping anyway.

I'd say "I wish this were true" but I truthfully don't -- nor is it true. There are countless people nationwide who are wildly successful without conforming to our nation's definition of 'education' or the educational system. They go on to become successful inventors, entrepreneurs, business owners, and other figureheads. The formalized American education system is just one way in which people can find success, though there are plenty of other routes, whether or not people (your teachers included) want to admit it or not.


Very true, but I think they're more of the exception than the norm. It's hard enough getting a white collar job out of college these days with so much competition. That said, anyone can find success without ever having to follow the prescribed education/career path but it's considerably harder.

curious_george_43545 wrote:And I don't hate school, but I just find it so boring either learning information that I personally already know or that I don't care about. There were a few classes that I enjoyed, for example art class, as I am going to major in graphic design I enjoyed going to that class and actually tried to learn. For my other classes - I tried to do the least work possible while just relying on my intelligence to maintain good grades, which really isn't very hard because most of the material is extremely easy. The majority of tests if you study the class period before and use common sense during the test, eliminating answers and using questions to answer other questions you can do well without actually learning the information.


Sounds like you're not feeling challenged enough in either that you have a knack at a certain studying skill or are ahead of the curve in what you know. I think once you get into college, you'll better appreciate learning other things for the sake of learning them.
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby Madison » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:12 am

bigh0rt wrote:Why do you hate school?


I can't speak for CG, but for me it was simply that I didn't actually learn anything in school and I've never been a clock-puncher. Meaning I didn't care to "have" to be at school at 7:45 AM and stick around until 3:15. If my work takes 2 hours, I should be able to leave when it's done. If it takes 12 hours, then so be it, I'll stick around and get it done. Punching a clock has never been something I care to do, regardless of if I work 1 hour a week or 100.

But the actual class time just drove me nuts. Sit around for an hour class to read a play out loud to ensure everyone could read, when I could read it and know it on my own in 10 minutes? Drove me crazy. I always felt like the teaching was a good 5-8 years behind the grade I was in. For example, when I was in 11th grade (junior in high school), it felt like we were learning stuff from 5th or 6th grade. And that was even in the "advanced" classes.

Didn't take a book home for 4 years of high school and graduated with honors, a member of the National Honor Society, a 4.0 GPA, and in the top 5% of my class (could have cared less about that stuff), while working 40+ hours a week, playing several sports (nationally ranked in tennis), and having an active social life. Got a full ride scholarship to college that I didn't accept. Could have been much more productive if I didn't have to sit around twiddling my thumbs for 8 hours a day during school, which is why I declined to attend college. Just couldn't sit around and be driven brain dead from the boredom for 4 more years.

And that's just the 2 big things that I hated, of course there's more, but I think that will do the trick for now. :-b
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby curious_george_43545 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:18 am

Madison wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:Why do you hate school?


I can't speak for CG, but for me it was simply that I didn't actually learn anything in school and I've never been a clock-puncher. Meaning I didn't care to "have" to be at school at 7:45 AM and stick around until 3:15. If my work takes 2 hours, I should be able to leave when it's done. If it takes 12 hours, then so be it, I'll stick around and get it done. Punching a clock has never been something I care to do, regardless of if I work 1 hour a week or 100.

But the actual class time just drove me nuts. Sit around for an hour class to read a play out loud to ensure everyone could read, when I could read it and know it on my own in 10 minutes? Drove me crazy. I always felt like the teaching was a good 5-8 years behind the grade I was in. For example, when I was in 11th grade (junior in high school), it felt like we were learning stuff from 5th or 6th grade. And that was even in the "advanced" classes.

Didn't take a book home for 4 years of high school and graduated with honors, a member of the National Honor Society, a 4.0 GPA, and in the top 5% of my class (could have cared less about that stuff), while working 40+ hours a week, playing several sports (nationally ranked in tennis), and having an active social life. Got a full ride scholarship to college that I didn't accept. Could have been much more productive if I didn't have to sit around twiddling my thumbs for 8 hours a day during school, which is why I declined to attend college. Just couldn't sit around and be driven brain dead from the boredom for 4 more years.

And that's just the 2 big things that I hated, of course there's more, but I think that will do the trick for now. :-b


Sound somewhat similar to myself. :-b
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Re: Getting Lil Madison to School

Postby knapplc » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:29 am

Heh. I was in the same boat, Madison - except for the GPA. I graduated High School with a 1.85 GPA (D+ for those of you scoring at home) but I was in the advanced classes all through primary and middle school, and through my sophomore year until my slumping grades kept me out of them.

It wasn't a matter of intelligence that killed my grades, it was a matter of boredom. I hated school, for exactly the same reason as Mad - I could not stand that pedantic, slow crap they made us slog through, even in the advanced classes. I never ever did homework but I aced all my tests, which is the only way I survived grade-wise. My counselor used to just shake her head whenever I got sent to her office for skipping homework. She was depressed that I wouldn't do the work so my grades suffered, and it was killing my chances at advancement, she said. Then I breezed through the ACTs and got a scholarship to college, only to flunk out my freshman year because... I was bored!

Looking back I needed to suck it up and just do the work, and there's no way I'm letting my kid get by with what my parents let me get by with, but if she's at all like me (her mom is a good little worker bee and did her homework). The employment prospects I would have had in my 20s would have been far better had I stuck it out in college and gotten that slip of paper. Instead of desk jobs I worked as a baker, a furniture mover, various sales jobs and even in repo for a little while until I finally got my foot in the door to a cushy job like I have now. Only problem is, there was a girl just out of college that came here a few years back, and that could have been me, earning far more money and working far less hard for it, had I just stuck it out in school.

Overall the problem is that schools simply aren't equipped to teach individuals on the pace they need. There are kids who need that extra time to learn, just as there are kids who get it right away and for whom that extra learning time is sheer hell. Schools have to mass-produce students. They don’t have the luxury or the manpower to compartmentalize their instruction for each little group’s abilities.

I think school for the masses will always remain a production line. Even though it’s not the best method of instruction, it’s the most feasible.
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