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Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby Guzman24 » Sat May 10, 2008 12:51 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:
bAsKeTcAsE86 wrote:How many mediocre hitters does it take to make a contender? Frank Thomas was a much better option in the middle of their lineup than Mench...


Frank Thomas was embarrassing himself. He couldn't catch up to a legit fastball and could not run the bases anymore. On more than one occasion he prevented someone from a double or could not score a run from second. I for one am glad he is gone, I would prefer anyone in the middle of the lineup. As for JP... he would be crucified for doing nothing and he is being crucified for trying something. He's trying to mix things up for a struggling offense, why is that such a joke?


Ummm.....look at his FA signings:

Thomas,Scuttaro,Eckstein,Koskie,Burnette,Clayton,Ohka,Zambrano,Overbay,Thompson and now.......Mench and Wilkerson

Those are just off the top of my head.

:-? :-t

Yes, he is a joke and this team will never do anything until he is gone.
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby bdrotoronto » Sat May 10, 2008 1:21 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:
bAsKeTcAsE86 wrote:How many mediocre hitters does it take to make a contender? Frank Thomas was a much better option in the middle of their lineup than Mench...
As for JP... he would be crucified for doing nothing and he is being crucified for trying something. He's trying to mix things up for a struggling offense, why is that such a joke?

JP is a joke for putting together this offence in the first place.. this is his 7th year running the team, and this is the 'grand' finished product he's come up with. %-6 He's had more than enough time to conclusively prove his lack of instinct for running a baseball club. He's had a lot of big failures in free agency, and almost no notable successes. Even guys JP takes credit for (e.g. Marcum, McGowan) were more accidents than the result of any big plan.. those guys were buried in Syracuse or the bullpen at the start of last year behind guys like Ohka, Zambrano, Towers, etc., and only got a chance because all of JP's acquisitions flopped. Management had no clue who could play and who couldn't, and much like LF this year, their whole strategy was just throwing everything at the wall and praying something sticks.

As for Thomas, I'm also not upset that he's gone.. but he was JP's signing in the first place, and the only reason they got rid of him was because JP signed him to such a brutal player-friendly contract that was going to burden the team financially again next year just by keeping him in the lineup now. JP is the only one who can be blamed for that fiasco, far more than Thomas, who was never worth what the Jays signed him for.
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby Montana » Sat May 10, 2008 4:00 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote: As for JP... he would be crucified for doing nothing and he is being crucified for trying something. He's trying to mix things up for a struggling offense, why is that such a joke?


Not to mention he made this acquisitions at basically no cost to the team........giving this a shot, is better than not trying anything.

At the very least, Mench/Stairs could provide a pretty valuable platoon.......
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby bAsKeTcAsE86 » Sat May 10, 2008 5:10 pm

Well, I agree that Thomas's contract was way too high, but there's no way Mench gives the Blue Jays better production than Thomas would have over the course of a full season. I've watched Mench enough to see that he is a free swinger with 25 HR power and league average ability to draw walks. He is not a number 4 or 5 hitter on a good team...
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby cookman » Mon May 12, 2008 9:59 am

Jays have go to be kicking themselves for letting Reed Johnson go with Vernon going down. I always thought he was an underrated, solid CF-er. With the way he's been playing with the Cubs this year, Toronto could have really used him.
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby Noggy » Mon May 12, 2008 1:41 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:
bAsKeTcAsE86 wrote:How many mediocre hitters does it take to make a contender? Frank Thomas was a much better option in the middle of their lineup than Mench...


Frank Thomas was embarrassing himself.


...embarrassing himself to a 116 OPS+ with Oakland. Sure sucks for the A's that they're stuck with a guy with a .391 OBP that another team is paying for.
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby tmlfan4ever » Mon May 12, 2008 8:02 pm

cookman wrote:Jays have go to be kicking themselves for letting Reed Johnson go with Vernon going down. I always thought he was an underrated, solid CF-er. With the way he's been playing with the Cubs this year, Toronto could have really used him.


You're right, we really miss a .255 hitting corner outfielder with no power and average defense. :-t

For full disclosure, I'm not a big JP backer, but the Mench+Wilkerson deal (on its own) was a good deal. Minimal risk, minimal cost. JP's construction of the rest of the offense is a whole other issue. :~(
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby cookman » Mon May 12, 2008 10:08 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:You're right, we really miss a .255 hitting corner outfielder with no power and average defense. :-t


He's been in a bit of a slump in May, but at the end of April he was posting a .400 OBP. And his defense has been excellent all year (his diving catch against the Nats is one of the best I've ever seen, and he's much better defensively than Rios). He runs the bases well, he plays solid fundamentally, he plays all the outfield positions, he's come up with a ton of huge hits this year (including a game-tying HR last night in the late innings in a game that the Cubs would come back to win). Like I said, he won't put up eye-popping numbers, but he's done just about everything the Cubs have asked from him this year. You're crazy if you don't think he'd contribute in the scrap-heap OF that is the Blue Jays right now.
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby tmlfan4ever » Mon May 12, 2008 11:08 pm

cookman wrote:...and he's much better defensively than Rios


Say what you want about Reed and his "gritty" approach, but Arm, Speed, Range... it's not even close between him and Rios in the outfield. Rios could potentially win a gold glove in right field. Not even close.
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Re: Jays Acquire Wilkerson + Mench

Postby cookman » Mon May 12, 2008 11:43 pm

I'll admit I'm not able to catch a ton of Jays games, so my knowledge is somewhat limited. But I can't ever remember being impessed in any of the games I have seen, and I don't remember ever reading anything saying his defense was anything special. I was at a game at Wrigley (back in '05 I think) where he was getting abused in the bleachers for badly misplaying at least one ball.

And arm, maybe, but range, I don't think so. There's no RF-er in the game that I can think of with this kind of range.
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