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Booting Starting Pitching-theory

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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby wingman3110 » Fri May 09, 2008 9:50 pm

This strategy worked pretty well for the team that won my 11team 5x5 league last year. He had Paplebon, Putz, Nathan, Krod, and Valverde as his closers. Plus his aces were Peavy, Sheets, and Maine. Well he easily won Era,Whip,and saves but also scored 8 points in K's and 5.5 in wins. So in total he snatched 46.5 pitching points and he won every offensive category except SB with 7 points. He won the league with a total of 97.5 and I was a distant second with 83.5, it also helped him extremely that his offense was extroidianary.
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby MTUCache » Fri May 09, 2008 9:59 pm

wingman3110 wrote:This strategy worked pretty well for the team that won my 11team 5x5 league last year. He had Paplebon, Putz, Nathan, Krod, and Valverde as his closers. Plus his aces were Peavy, Sheets, and Maine. Well he easily won Era,Whip,and saves but also scored 8 points in K's and 5.5 in wins. So in total he snatched 46.5 pitching points and he won every offensive category except SB with 7 points. He won the league with a total of 97.5 and I was a distant second with 83.5, it also helped him extremely that his offense was extroidianary.


Granted, Peavy/Sheets/Maine isn't exactly a stellar rotation for a 5x5 roto, and isn't going to win too many points in Wins... but this isn't even close to the scenario these guys are talking about (having no options at starter).

Replace those 500 starter innings with maybe 200 reliever innings (if he can get one or two good-ratio SP/RP eligible guys), and you're losing 200-300 Ks. That'll cost him probably 5 points there, if not more.

Then you take away those 5.5 points in Wins, and drop him down to 1 (basically losing 35+ wins here, right?), and you're dropping his aggregate score by 9+ points. He still may have won the league, but it would have looked a heck of a lot closer down the stretch. ;-D
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby Dislexic Irishman » Fri May 09, 2008 10:49 pm

I wouldn't punt categories, but I also never draft starters early. In my most competitive league this is what my starters looked like out of the draft and round they were drafted in - 12 teams.

Cain (11)
Maine (12)
Bonderman (14)
Garza (17) - dropped
Meche (18) - dropped
Zito (21) - dropped

Picked up Okajima and Broxton to complement my starters.
275 innings later, my ERA is 3.08 and WHIP is 1.18. Tied for 3rd in W's.
By drafting pretty much my entire offense before any pitching, I lead HR's, R's. Second in RBI's, AVG.

Basically, there's always good starters to be had once the season starts. There's no need to punt a category when the likes of Scott Olsen, Cliff Lee, Jair Jurrjens, Joe Saunders can be picked up off waivers.
Granted, there is a decent amount of luck involved but its worked so far.
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby The Artful Dodger » Sat May 10, 2008 12:57 am

rookies and cream wrote:For example, from the draft I selected
C - Vmart (3rd round)
1B - DLee (5th round)
2B - Weeks (9th round)
3B - Atkins (4th round)
SS - M Young (7th round)
OF - Holliday (1st round)
OF - Sizemore (2nd round)
OF - Granderson (6th round)


Thing is, your strong offense, namely getting Lee and Granderson as a bargain, is just as much a factor to your team's success than keeping it lean in SP and top-heavy in RP/MR. What you noted is an extreme example that you grabbed Lee and Granderson in the 5th and 6th when they were cheaper than their ADP should be (Lee should've been a 4th rounder, Granderson despite the injured finger still should've been a late 3rd round pick at latest). Right now, I think V-Mart and Young are sunk picks for where they were drafted which could negate the merit of going so top-heavy offensively.

Depending on league settings (i.e. league minimums, RP/P slots, league size), this can be an effective roto strategy. I would be more apt to put this strategy into action where you have 7 spots open. I can take 3-4 closers as well as 3 top-shelf MR's to work with. Problem I see with it is you'd have to pay a premium on closers and you have a higher opportunity cost in taking an elite closer over a hitter that pole vaults his individual value (I actually think there's more risk management involved). You don't want to be caught building your bullpen off of mid-tier closers like a Corpas/R. Soriano. I think the best scenario is if you can snag a Papelbon, don't draft a closer after a few rounds, hope to get Soria in the middle rounds, and grab another bargain closer. You also don't want to overpay for an elite MR either, especially those whose names are thrown in as save vultures or as possible replacement closers. At the time you're seeking a reliever, you have a deep set of SP talent which could increase in value for trades, more so than a top-shelf MR that never increases his value rapidly unless he's earning the closing duties. So, ultimately this strategy could tilt towards utility over value, to the extent you can't make the needed upgrades should you fall short in whatever area for whatever reason. I still prefer to strive for balance.

I think this strategy holds more water in H2H, but again, similar concerns as I stated in terms of utility/value and opportunity cost. Personally, I don't like having a "reactive" pitching staff, rather I'd strive for a pitching staff where from top to bottom, there's a gradual progression from your ace pitcher to the worst starter. I find that I win a measure of H2H's with this. My best pitching staff this year has Webb as the best starter and the worst? Ervin Santana. I'd rather take home the categories I'd control week to week in and that's wins and K's, with a tilt towards starting pitching so I can control the number of innings I can log in, by logging in more. My secondary aim is ERA/WHIP, but by the same token, the starting pitching isn't likely to kill my ERA/WHIP week to week. Having a good bullpen to complement my starters is secondary in my opinion, but gives enough balance to avoid major letdowns any given week.
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby jake_harv88 » Sat May 10, 2008 10:57 am

rookies and cream wrote:Check out this thread

viewtopic.php?t=321997&hilit=punting+wins

I'm doing this strategy now in my big $ 12-team 5x5 roto league, and although I started off slow due to some starter and relief blow-outs (I only started this strategy in week 2), I'm now making some progress. I'm in 4th place overall but expect to be in top two in the next 2-3 weeks.

Over the past 28 days, my ERA has been 3.01 and WHIP .94. Note, this strategy can only be used in a league without minimum IP's.


Rook - I was basing my math off your first post in this thread. Next time be more honest with us :-D (that was a completely sarcastic statement) (is there a way to make a sarcasm icon? :-b )

7x7 I could see it being more effective. In the end this strategy is going to be hard to execute and I think you know that, but you certainly have the fantasy prowess to pull it off. Here in lies the beauty of fantasy sports; that almost any strategy can work as long as it is executed well. Good luck to you sir, let me know how it works out ;-D
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby rookies and cream » Sat May 10, 2008 11:06 am

jake_harv88 wrote:
rookies and cream wrote:Check out this thread

viewtopic.php?t=321997&hilit=punting+wins

I'm doing this strategy now in my big $ 12-team 5x5 roto league, and although I started off slow due to some starter and relief blow-outs (I only started this strategy in week 2), I'm now making some progress. I'm in 4th place overall but expect to be in top two in the next 2-3 weeks.

Over the past 28 days, my ERA has been 3.01 and WHIP .94. Note, this strategy can only be used in a league without minimum IP's.


Rook - I was basing my math off your first post in this thread. Next time be more honest with us :-D (that was a completely sarcastic statement) (is there a way to make a sarcasm icon? :-b )

7x7 I could see it being more effective. In the end this strategy is going to be hard to execute and I think you know that, but you certainly have the fantasy prowess to pull it off. Here in lies the beauty of fantasy sports; that almost any strategy can work as long as it is executed well. Good luck to you sir, let me know how it works out ;-D


Oops. My bad. I guess that's what happens when you try to work and post fantasy information at the same time. :*)
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby Merlin401 » Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm

I think its a much better idea to draft a mediocre pitching staff filled with sleepers. In my 14 team league, I drafted EIGHT rounds of bats first, then starting collecting some starters and starting pitchers. I still wound up with: Lidge, Cordero, T. Jones closing and guys like DiceK (Ok that shouldnt have happened), but also Marcum, Lilly, Oliver Perez and supplemented with Cueto, Jarrjens, and Danks to give me a productive staff. Hell, with Rollins, Granderson, Posada and Figgins all on DL for a lot of the season, my rag-tag pitching staff has been saving me!!!!
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Re: Booting Starting Pitching-theory

Postby rookies and cream » Sat May 10, 2008 3:36 pm

Merlin401 wrote:I think its a much better idea to draft a mediocre pitching staff filled with sleepers. In my 14 team league, I drafted EIGHT rounds of bats first, then starting collecting some starters and starting pitchers. I still wound up with: Lidge, Cordero, T. Jones closing and guys like DiceK (Ok that shouldnt have happened), but also Marcum, Lilly, Oliver Perez and supplemented with Cueto, Jarrjens, and Danks to give me a productive staff. Hell, with Rollins, Granderson, Posada and Figgins all on DL for a lot of the season, my rag-tag pitching staff has been saving me!!!!


This is actually a good comparison team to the strategy in discussion. Is this a 5x5 league? How many pitching points do you have? The goal is for your team to have more than 44 pitching points at the end of the year. I'll be curious to see if you are able to sustain this amount all year...
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