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Starting No Catcher?

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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby fezzik » Wed May 07, 2008 5:59 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
Dreamscape wrote:Never know until you try it, I guess. There is merits to start a catcher, but if you only have crappy choices, there is also merits to not starting one. To say it's black and white lacks much objectivity. I'm in a friendly league from a Braves forum where it's just for fun. Seems like a perfect place to give it a try and see how it works.


Actually it is black and white. If you don't start a catcher it can only potentially help you in 1 category. If you do start one it helps you in at least 4. No grey area at all. It's stupidity to even attempt it even in a 20 team league.


I see what you're trying to say, but it really isn't black and white...if you're in a roto league and you're dominating the counting stats late into the season (or simply in a position from which you can't improve or decline because the margins between you and the next guy are so large), but are in a race with a bunch of other managers to get some points from AVG...then sitting your catcher could behoove you. The same concept can be applied to the last days of any given H2H week...

I don't see the benefits of doing it at the start of a H2H week though...
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby J35J » Wed May 07, 2008 6:03 pm

I guess I'm just a black sheep when it comes to fantasy baseball.

I think streaming is pretty lame, I think not starting a full roster is lame.

I play this game to put my player evaluation skills up against other owners player evaluation skills. I'm not worried about "playing the rules" and "bending the rules" and trying to find any "loop hole" I can to win....I won't do it. I research and put together my cheat sheets in the preseason...try to have the best draft possible and just play my guys. I guess if I played in money leagues things would be a little different but I must be old school in that I think this game is about player evaluation not how I can best use the rules, or lack thereof, to my advantage. Anyway, thats just where I'm coming from. To each his own.

carry on.... :-)
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby NZ Eff » Wed May 07, 2008 6:05 pm

Guzman24 wrote:You're right, nothing is guaranteed in fantasy baseball but you can definitely play the averages.

I'm sure you've benched a SP against an unfavourable matchup in fear of your peripherals getting destroyed. Sitting a catcher who continuously goes 0/4 and leaving the C spot vacant is basically the same thing. All he's doing is wrecking your average and not giving you anything else. I really don't understand your argument.

......once again :-S


Exactly, you must play the averages. 1 against 4 is not playing the averages, it's playing against the averages.

Your SP comparison is nonsense. You guys just don't think do you? A bumb start from your SP is the exact opposite as it can only benefit you in K's. This may be desirable at times during H2H play but never in May in a roto league. Of course you sit a iffy SP because he can hurt you in 3 cats and can potentially only help you in 1.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby NZ Eff » Wed May 07, 2008 6:07 pm

fezzik wrote:I see what you're trying to say, but it really isn't black and white...if you're in a roto league and you're dominating the counting stats late into the season (or simply in a position from which you can't improve or decline because the margins between you and the next guy are so large), but are in a race with a bunch of other managers to get some points from AVG...then sitting your catcher could behoove you. The same concept can be applied to the last days of any given H2H week...

I don't see the benefits of doing it at the start of a H2H week though...


:-? We're talking about the 7th May. Late into September is a completely different story.

It's black and white right now.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Wed May 07, 2008 6:16 pm

Whisp wrote:i really don't see why anyone would care if someone chooses not to field a catcher. perfectly legit strategy, probably hurts more than helps but it's still legit. as long as the interface allows it and it's not forbidden by the rules, there's really no conceivable complaint.

Keeper league. Tanking.

I suppose we could make a rule that says, "You have to start someone at every position. Except catcher, because catchers are lame." Easier and more consistent to just say, "Your pitchers are throwing the ball to someone. Put a catcher in the lineup. Play someone at every position." Because otherwise, someone will say, "Weeeell, my 2b is hurt. There isn't anyone up to my standards on the waiver wire. I guess I'll have to play with no 2b for the rest of the year. Or 3b either. And one of my outfielders."

My league isn't that far off of yours, Yoda; we have 16 teams, so if your catcher goes down, you may end up putting in some lame backup. And clearly as commish I'm not going to come down on someone for putting in the best available to them, no matter how much they suck. I've had managers say, "But I don't liiiiiike any of the catchers out there!" To which I say, "Me either. Perhaps you should have drafted another. Or perhaps you should trade for one. Or perhaps this will be the reason you lose at the end of the year. But the rules apply to each owner: try to start someone at each position and play the game."

It isn't black and white. People tank in various ways. If I see someone doing something fishy, I'll talk to them and try to figure out what they're doing.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby RAmst23 » Wed May 07, 2008 6:17 pm

NZ the starting pitching example still stands. What if you don't need much help in your counting stats, but need to make sure your rate stats stay high (Talking H2H)? I play with 10 offensive cats, two of which are rate. I've definitely sat my catcher Saturday and Sunday before because he was sucking it up. 16 team league and there weren't any great options. How's that even remotely stupid?

Stop ignoring any and all evidence.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby Dreamscape » Wed May 07, 2008 6:23 pm

Just figured I would try this. It's not a loophole, but strategy. If it fails, it fails. But I think there is a chance it'll succeed so might as well ride it out. I had a catcher who was helping me minimally in three cats, hurting me in one significantly. His help was not improving my club. I don't feel like trading for another catcher unless he's elite so I might as well solidify my bench with a player that might help me in the UTIL spot win games.

Maybe Kurt Suzuki would help. But might as well see if this works. It's interesting that those who try it seem to think it could work and those who wouldn't say it can't work.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby Yoda » Wed May 07, 2008 6:25 pm

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:My league isn't that far off of yours, Yoda; we have 16 teams, so if your catcher goes down, you may end up putting in some lame backup. And clearly as commish I'm not going to come down on someone for putting in the best available to them, no matter how much they suck. I've had managers say, "But I don't liiiiiike any of the catchers out there!" To which I say, "Me either. Perhaps you should have drafted another. Or perhaps you should trade for one. Or perhaps this will be the reason you lose at the end of the year. But the rules apply to each owner: try to start someone at each position and play the game."

It isn't black and white. People tank in various ways. If I see someone doing something fishy, I'll talk to them and try to figure out what they're doing.


I actually posted a note on the league board to see if anyone has a problem with what I am doing. If someone has a big problem with it then I will obviously not do it.

I also started looking at the waivers and will offer some trades this week so hopefully I can get someone viable in there.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby NZ Eff » Wed May 07, 2008 6:25 pm

RAmst23 wrote:NZ the starting pitching example still stands. What if you don't need much help in your counting stats, but need to make sure your rate stats stay high (Talking H2H)? I play with 10 offensive cats, two of which are rate. I've definitely sat my catcher Saturday and Sunday before because he was sucking it up. 16 team league and there weren't any great options. How's that even remotely stupid?

Stop ignoring any and all evidence.


How am I ignoring all evidence? No one has presented any that has any credibility. Of course there's exceptions and yours, to sit a catcher Sat, Sun because they're sucking it up makes sense, I've got no problem with that. But sitting them everyday for the entire season is in fact stupid. I'm sorry but there's no other way to describe it. It makes no sense at all at this time of the year in 99% of any league to do so. Black and White, end of story.
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Re: Starting No Catcher?

Postby fezzik » Wed May 07, 2008 6:28 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
fezzik wrote:I see what you're trying to say, but it really isn't black and white...if you're in a roto league and you're dominating the counting stats late into the season (or simply in a position from which you can't improve or decline because the margins between you and the next guy are so large), but are in a race with a bunch of other managers to get some points from AVG...then sitting your catcher could behoove you. The same concept can be applied to the last days of any given H2H week...

I don't see the benefits of doing it at the start of a H2H week though...


:-? We're talking about the 7th May. Late into September is a completely different story.

It's black and white right now.


Maybe you didn't read my entire post...THINK BEFORE RESPOND! Sorry, I just see you write that alot. :-b
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