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One More Streaming Problem Thread

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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby n0_j0 » Thu May 08, 2008 5:21 pm

The worst part about asking him to accept the new "no-streaming" rules is that he crafted his draft strategy explicitly for the rules. Hell, if I were in that league, I would not draft a single starting pitcher until I had drafted literally every other position (including bench players). Yes, I'd punt on ERA, but I would guarantee that I would win appearances and IP each week and have a decent chance of winning K each week by starting 4 or 5 pitchers EVERY DAY.

Why? Because the rules allow it. And once I draft my team according to the rules in place, there's no way it's fair to change the rules (and make my team completely uncompetitive).
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby flloyd » Thu May 08, 2008 9:43 pm

Merlin401 wrote:14 Team league with the following very strange pitching categories:

IP, Appearences, W, Saves, Ks, ERA

No Rule Against Streaming at the beginning of the year. Hmm...


What kind of stupid league settings are those. Is you commissioner Woody "Eighty percent of success is showing up" Allen?
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby flloyd » Thu May 08, 2008 9:48 pm

noseeum wrote:
Matthias wrote:
Merlin401 wrote:I'm very happy with my pitching staff, but sometimes all your guys have 1 start and all your opponent's seem to have 2. Why would i sit by idly and lose easily winnable categories, right?

Then stop drafting pitchers who pitch out of 10-man rotations.

Streaming is a punk move. If you tried this in my league, I might kick you out this year. I would definitely not invite you back for next. The real question is what are you gaining by this? Probably not money (or not much) and any recognition or pride that you think you'd get will be instantly shot down by your leaguemates. So why do it?


You say this in every streaming thread, and you never respond to the point that that is just your opinion. Many people feel it's not a punk move. It's a legitimate strategy, and it's an inherent characteristic of a league that has daily lineup changes and counting stats for pitchers. In a league with these settings, there's a big sign next to every starting pitcher on the waiver wire, saying "PICK ME UP! I CAN HELP YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING THIS WEEK! PLEASE!!!!!" and you expect everyone to just ignore it.

Meanwhile, it's never been discussed in the league before. Your line of thinking assumes that everyone is literally born with the knowledge that streaming is a "punk move." It's just not true. But regardless of the flawed logic, you want to burn every streamer at the stake.

Can't you even consider the other perspective?


Did you read the OP? I'll quote part of it:
Code: Select all
After some heavy-duty streaming by me and one other guy the first week, the Commish basically sent around a 'memo' saying lets all agree not to do this since some people were getting upset. Some people agreed, some people didn't say anything, I disagreed and it was basically unresolved.

Now no one is streaming at all basically.... Some managers got pretty PISSED last time I did it.


Everybody in the league has agreed not to stream except for the OP. It is quite clear that the streaming is not accepted in the league and and the OP while he may not be cheating is certainly playing cheap.

That said whoever created the rules for you league is an idiot and deserves just as much ire for creating these circumstances.
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby Merlin401 » Thu May 08, 2008 11:50 pm

flloyd wrote:Everybody in the league has agreed not to stream except for the OP. It is quite clear that the streaming is not accepted in the league and and the OP while he may not be cheating is certainly playing cheap.

That said whoever created the rules for you league is an idiot and deserves just as much ire for creating these circumstances.


I wouldn't say everyone "agreed not to stream." Only 2 people were doing it to begin with. When this motion went around, from what I saw, about a quarter of the league responded saying they support that. The other 3/4ths were silent on the issue out of apathy or whatever (who knows)

All this being said, the way my team is designed now, I'd say I only need to stream Friday-Sat-Sun once every 3 weeks or so. I usually hold a start advantage anyway. Hardly something to get worked up over.
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby n0_j0 » Fri May 09, 2008 1:13 pm

flloyd wrote:
Everybody in the league has agreed not to stream except for the OP. It is quite clear that the streaming is not accepted in the league and and the OP while he may not be cheating is certainly playing cheap.


Hey, what if everybody else in your league voted and decided that you finish last, no matter what the standings say? Is that fair? That's called "Tyranny of the Majority".
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby Matthias » Fri May 09, 2008 1:53 pm

n0_j0 wrote:
flloyd wrote:Everybody in the league has agreed not to stream except for the OP. It is quite clear that the streaming is not accepted in the league and and the OP while he may not be cheating is certainly playing cheap.

Hey, what if everybody else in your league voted and decided that you finish last, no matter what the standings say? Is that fair? That's called "Tyranny of the Majority".

Hey, what if it's a standard points league (1B = 1pt, 2B = 2pts, 3B = 3pts, W = 10 pts, L = -10pts, etc.) but the commissioner's finger slips while he's putting in the values and it ends up being 222 points for a double? And noone notices pre-draft except for one guy who won't allow a redraft and won't allow it changed? Is that fair? That's called "Tyranny of the Bureaucrats".
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby Matthias » Fri May 09, 2008 2:08 pm

noseeum wrote:
Merlin401 wrote:Totally untrue. Its a 26 person team so benches can be pretty large. This particular week, I have eight starting pitchers and my opponent has 7. But as it just so happens... I have TWELVE starts this week and he has SEVEN. With our categories that is a major unfair advantage to him, out of no fault of his own or his rotations. And it wont balance out, as I might not even play him again this entire year. So why shouldn't he be allowed to stream a pitcher a day to try to make up this difference and AT LEAST make me work for IPs, Innings, and Ks? Personally I see that as only logical.


Amen. The anti streaming argument just makes no sense when you drill down into it. A guy is staring a loss straight in the face and the rest of the league wants to be able to tell him to accept defeat on Monday? I think streaming is way too tiresome to have to deal with, but that's why I don't play in leagues with pro-streaming setups. If I did play in one and I was facing a 5 start deficit, I would most certainly do my best to beat the pants off the other owner.

What it drills down to is at that point you aren't competing on a function of player evaluation but rather on the function of the game mechanism. What people (including myself) find distasteful about it is that someone can assemble an awesome pitching staff... Santana, Webb, and then be astute and pick up Volquez and Gavin Floyd. And that preparation and scouting is made meaningless because someone is willing to do something mindless and pick up 3 pitchers a day. It undermines the premise of the game except to challenge everyone else to resort to the same tactics.

If it was a willing decision by the league.. "Ok, we've heard about this. We know about our settings. And we're ok with that" going into the season, then fine. You know what you're getting into. But if it's something that people weren't expecting b/c they're new or don't hang out at fantasy baseball sites, then it's just sour apples. How would you feel if, buried in the settings of the league, you found out post-draft that all stats scored at Wrigley Field count triple? Sure, buyer beware, your duty to read, yadda yadda yadda... but that's not the cut-throat experience that everyone is looking for and maybe not the type of thing that they want their league to reward.
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby flloyd » Fri May 09, 2008 4:27 pm

n0_j0 wrote:
flloyd wrote:
Everybody in the league has agreed not to stream except for the OP. It is quite clear that the streaming is not accepted in the league and and the OP while he may not be cheating is certainly playing cheap.


Hey, what if everybody else in your league voted and decided that you finish last, no matter what the standings say? Is that fair? That's called "Tyranny of the Majority".


Huh? Where did i ever suggest that he's supposed to lose? i don't get it. Or is that supposed to be some really bad argument against making league wide rules? Does your league limit the number of active players allowed? Does it have a waiver wire process? Are players limited to their real baseball positions? Of course. FBB generally has certain rules that all leagues follow and obviously some league have more strict or lenient rules and different procedures as they see fit. The vast majority of leagues and people on this board look down on streaming and therefore it is discouraged if not out right banned.

As I said earlier the commish in that league messed up and created really bad/dumb rules so maybe they should reap what they sow. But I think it's perfectly fair to ask/make people stop streaming. If the OP thinks that that is unfair due to their draft strategy then they should argue that to the commish/league and they can decide what is fair and either change the rule this year or ideally next year (if they don't just kick him out next year).
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby Matthias » Fri May 09, 2008 6:47 pm

flloyd wrote:
n0_j0 wrote:
flloyd wrote:Everybody in the league has agreed not to stream except for the OP. It is quite clear that the streaming is not accepted in the league and and the OP while he may not be cheating is certainly playing cheap.

Hey, what if everybody else in your league voted and decided that you finish last, no matter what the standings say? Is that fair? That's called "Tyranny of the Majority".

Huh? Where did i ever suggest that he's supposed to lose? i don't get it. Or is that supposed to be some really bad argument against making league wide rules?

Basically. And an ounce of him thinking he's being clever.
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Re: One More Streaming Problem Thread

Postby n0_j0 » Fri May 09, 2008 7:25 pm

flloyd wrote:Huh? Where did i ever suggest that he's supposed to lose? i don't get it.


You suggested that he should lose when you suggested that the rules for which he specifically drafted his team were no longer valid.
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