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Dodger will wIN the west! read why

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Postby stumpak » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:08 pm

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Postby TownDrunk » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:54 pm

The only thing the Giants did to improve was get Pierzinski (and he's not much of an upgrade from Santiago). Starting pitcher problems include: Schmidt is a question mark with his sholder, Reuter as their #2 will be WAY overmatched, Williams is unproven and Tomko had one decent year in his whole career plus Nen might not even pitch (again) this year. As far as hitting: they've got bums in the STARTING lineup (Nefi Perez, JT Snow, Michael Tucker), Bonds will be 40 this year, Alfonzo has been a disappointment and Durham was slowed by a leg problem all of last year (and will be 33 this year). I conservatively think it's safe to say the Giants are no lock for the division this year.


Bums? Durham is healthy this year and he provides them a legit threat at the top of the order. Snow excelled in the 2 spot last season. Bonds is still Bonds, the best player in the game. Alfonzo was a disappointment in the 1st half, yes. However, in the 2nd half, he really went on fire. He should carry that over to this year and mark this down, he will drive in over a 100 runs! Tucker/Hammonds/Mohr is an upgrade over Cruz in RF. They also make the Giants' bench a little deeper. I'd also take Perez's superb defense over Aurilia's limited range. Pierzinski is a big upgrade from Santiago. Santiago’s defense was really, really slipping. A.J. is great defensively and he is a left handed hitter, an All Star catcher entering his prime. Baseball is not all about offense.

Schmidt says he's feeling great and Rueter is constantly underrated. He may not be the hardest thrower in the majors, but he goes out every year and wins about 15 games. Williams was talked about being a ROY candidate, and the Giants expect big things from him. Nen started throwing off the mound and both Alou and Stan Conte came away impressed. In fact, it was reported that he will be healthy enough to pitch this year.

Why?

I happen to think that Tomko was a terrible move. Let's take a look at him.

Career: 1042.2 innings with a 4.62 era and a 1.36 whip. That's pretty terrible. Maybe he's gotten better the last couple of years? Nope.

'03---202.2 innings, 5.28 era, 1.52 whip.
'02---204.1 innings, 4.49 era, 1.33 whip.

He had an era of 3.43 in 126 innings as a rookie in '97. Other than that year, his lowest era ever in his career was 4.44 in 210.2 innings in '98.

Not sure at all why people seem to think that signing him was a good move.


After the All Star break, Tomko went 8-3 and lowered his ERA a point after a horrendous first half. Righetti is one of the most underrated pitching coaches in the majors, I believe. Tomko has always showed potential to be a solid pitcher; he just needs to learn how to pitch inside. With Righetti as his coach, hopefully he’ll teach him to throw inside more. If he does, he will be a pleasant surprise this year. Pitching in Pac Bell doesn’t hurt either.

the giants fouled by trading Russ Ortiz and getting nothing in return (Ponson gone). I have to say that as long as Sabean is GM of that team, they will never win San Francisco their first World Series. As far as winning the NL West, they are the reigning champ and have the best home-run hitter in the game. But they will choke as they usually do in the playoffs, IMHO. And I don’t want to hear anything about Oakland short


The Ortiz deal was a salary dump, on Magowan's orders. If they had kept Ortiz, there would have been no need to trade for Ponson. But again, another person who wants to see the Giants get rid of one of the best GM's in baseball. How ridiculous.

As for the Padres, I think they will have a great season. And yes, they will probably challenge for the division crown. However, their pitching staff doesn’t scare me, yet. Until I see them prove themselves, there is no way I’m going to hand over the division to them. They don’t exactly strike fear in me yet. Also, I do believe the Padres had Giles and Nevin towards the end of last year, but they still couldn’t beat the Giants ;-)
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Postby PacBellParker » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:04 pm

This is such a joke.

The Giants won 100 games last year and won the West by 15 games. During the off-season, the only team that made any significant improvements was the Padres. And yet some people here are still picking the Giants to finish fourth in the division? Bwah???

At the beginning of the season last year, I remember everyone saying Arizona, Arizona, Arizona. A few others speculated that in the end it might be a dog fight between Zona and the Dodgers, but the Giants were all but written off. When SF kept winning, people said they were playing over their heads or that they were just lucky. Oh come on! The beauty of baseball's 162 game season is that it is a marathon. You can be lucky for a series, or maybe for a couple of weeks, but you've got to actually be pretty good to win 100 games.

So for those of you who are picking the Giants to finish third or fourth in the division, what's your deal? Does your hatred of Bonds simply overwhelm any sense of logic or realism? Are you simply a jealous Dodger fan? (How many years since the Dodgers last won the West by the way? Made the playoffs?)

The Giants have finished in first or second in the West for the past SEVEN years. SEVEN. Still, I guess I will have to listen to people be shocked and amazed at how the Giants continue to win this year with smoke and mirrors. Sigh.
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Postby shortsavage » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:35 pm

SkewedBoard wrote:the giants fouled by trading Russ Ortiz and getting nothing in return (Ponson gone). I have to say that as long as Sabean is GM of that team, they will never win San Francisco their first World Series. As far as winning the NL West, they are the reigning champ and have the best home-run hitter in the game. But they will choke as they usually do in the playoffs, IMHO. And I dont want to hear anything about Oakland short.


I was going to lash out against the author of this post. Then I noticed that it was your doing.

Like TownDrunk said, the Ortiz trade was brought on because of budget constraints. And you are partially right, after the Giants dealt Moss in the Ponson deal the Ortiz trade looked a little uglier, but I am pretty sure that I guy named Merkin came along with Moss. And He could make some noise in the near future.

I am thinking that you your choking and Sabean comments just to get under my skin, because they don't make much sense. And I will not waste my breath responding to them.

You are forgetting that I am not like you and many of your fellow Oakland fans. I do not show bitterness to the team on the other bank. I like the A's. I do not have any reasons to disrespect their team or fans.
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Postby shortsavage » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:46 pm

Madison wrote:
Why?

I happen to think that Tomko was a terrible move. Let's take a look at him.

Career: 1042.2 innings with a 4.62 era and a 1.36 whip. That's pretty terrible. Maybe he's gotten better the last couple of years? Nope.

'03---202.2 innings, 5.28 era, 1.52 whip.
'02---204.1 innings, 4.49 era, 1.33 whip.

He had an era of 3.43 in 126 innings as a rookie in '97. Other than that year, his lowest era ever in his career was 4.44 in 210.2 innings in '98.

Not sure at all why people seem to think that signing him was a good move. :-?


I am with TownDrunk here too. When you crunch the numbers and look at the price tag, the Tomko deal was not a bad move at all.

Tomko may flop like Homer Simpson tripping off the high dive, but the Giants didn't exactly throw the franchise tag on him :-D. And Rags and the rich dimensions of SCB could turn Tomko's pitching ability into a rags to riches-like story.

I think you are just biased against Tomko Madison.
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Postby shortsavage » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:54 pm

You are right PacBellParker, the Giants have not been accurately judged in many preseason power rankings. I would attribute these brutal misses partially to a media bais. But that can not be the story alone.

While Red Sox fans are excited to take a stab at knocking off the Yankees in an underdog situation, Giants fans have been living the underdog situation for years. How many consecutive seasons do you have to finish above .500 before you get your dues?

For the Padres the number is 0 :-D. And even though they look good on paper, that 0 will stay by their side when it comes to division titles.
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Postby HOOTIE » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:35 am

SD has improved, but i don't see them close to 1st, (sorry WRVERES).

SF and LA should be the top 2.

I think Weaver is a great sleeper this year. He did well in Comerica. Dodger Stadium, minus a dh is even better. Dodger offense won't be as bad.

Why is Sabean getting bashed? GM of the year. Wins 95-100 games with very little talent. Only a bullpen meltdown stopped him from a ring. In the last 5 years, SF has clearly been the class of division.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:47 am

TownDrunk wrote:I expect Tomko to a have a great year.


Once I saw this, I was forced to stop reading. :-D
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Postby TownDrunk » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:50 am

Perhaps you should have read a little more:

After the All Star break, Tomko went 8-3 and lowered his ERA a point after a horrendous first half. Righetti is one of the most underrated pitching coaches in the majors, I believe. Tomko has always showed potential to be a solid pitcher; he just needs to learn how to pitch inside. With Righetti as his coach, hopefully he’ll teach him to throw inside more. If he does, he will be a pleasant surprise this year. Pitching in Pac Bell doesn’t hurt either.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:08 am

TownDrunk wrote:Perhaps you should have read a little more:

After the All Star break, Tomko went 8-3 and lowered his ERA a point after a horrendous first half. Righetti is one of the most underrated pitching coaches in the majors, I believe. Tomko has always showed potential to be a solid pitcher; he just needs to learn how to pitch inside. With Righetti as his coach, hopefully he’ll teach him to throw inside more. If he does, he will be a pleasant surprise this year. Pitching in Pac Bell doesn’t hurt either.


I know. I just can't see him doing anything good. Sabean is known to step in sh*t with most of his signings but I have to believe that this 1 won't work out for him.
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