Is Cliff Lee for real? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Is Cliff Lee for real?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby Oatsdad » Thu May 08, 2008 7:37 pm

Sp_Da_Man wrote:Cliff Lee just got traded in my 12 team sportsline h2h league with Paul Konerko for Ryan Howard.

Alot of people got fired up over the fact that a free agent pitcher to start with (Lee) & a 10th rounder (Konerko) got traded for a first round pick (Howard).


That logic drives me batty. People get so damned obsessed with draft placement, like that's the be-all and end-all of fantasy success. "I can't drop him - I got him in the 4th round! So what if he's 0-200 with 197 Ks???" %-6

If I have to trade my 3rd and 4th round picks to get a WW acquisition who will BENEFIT my team, I'll do it. I don't give a rat's ass about this "value" nonsense. People will "value" themselves into last place... :-t
Oatsdad
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1295
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby duckbillgates » Thu May 08, 2008 9:40 pm

Oatsdad wrote:
Sp_Da_Man wrote:Cliff Lee just got traded in my 12 team sportsline h2h league with Paul Konerko for Ryan Howard.

Alot of people got fired up over the fact that a free agent pitcher to start with (Lee) & a 10th rounder (Konerko) got traded for a first round pick (Howard).


That logic drives me batty. People get so damned obsessed with draft placement, like that's the be-all and end-all of fantasy success. "I can't drop him - I got him in the 4th round! So what if he's 0-200 with 197 Ks???" %-6

If I have to trade my 3rd and 4th round picks to get a WW acquisition who will BENEFIT my team, I'll do it. I don't give a rat's ass about this "value" nonsense. People will "value" themselves into last place... :-t


I always think it's a bad idea to significantly change your "value" on a player after just a month.

More often people will "trade their slumping first-round draft pick for waiver pickups off to a hot start" themselves into last place. :-D

If Lee can maintain even a decent K:BB ratio, he'll be a solid #4, but everyone needs to keep in mind that if he finishes the season with a very respectable (and career best) 3.50 ERA, he'll have an ERA over 4.00 for the rest of the season. I also don't see that K rate holding up. He's been been moving a low-90s fastball around the zone nicely, but he isn't mixing up his pitches much. That doesn't add up to the nearly 200 strikeouts he's on pace for.

In other words, yes, he's kind of for real, but you should still sell if you can get decent value. I think everyone is expecting him to either keep dominating all season (won't happen) or completely fall apart (probably won't happen, either).
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
— Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
duckbillgates
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1216
Joined: 1 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: under a dead Ohio sky

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby Oatsdad » Thu May 08, 2008 11:16 pm

duckbillgates wrote:
I always think it's a bad idea to significantly change your "value" on a player after just a month.

More often people will "trade their slumping first-round draft pick for waiver pickups off to a hot start" themselves into last place. :-D


I agree with that - my rant didn't mean that I'd abandon a high pick on May 8th. I just think too many players cling to the notion of "value" for way too long and don't pay enough attention to what the player is DOING. They care more about the name and what the player DID in the past...
Oatsdad
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1295
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby MasterX1918 » Thu May 08, 2008 11:29 pm

I think Cliff Lee=Esteban Loaiza. I don't think he'll manage to go under 3.00 and strike out 200+ like Loaiza did and be a Cy Young contender, but I think he'll come close.
Image
MasterX1918
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 2150
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon May 12, 2008 10:00 pm

8-o 9 shutout innings.
Image

Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
Neato Torpedo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerWeb Supporter
Posts: 8618
Joined: 4 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: we don't burn gasoline, we burn our dreams

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby kcs261 » Mon May 12, 2008 10:27 pm

There are a lot of guys in my league who take the approach of selling a guy like Lee because they don't believe it will continue.

I think that's a rotten strategy. I'm not going to try to explain why Lee is playing like he is. I don't need to do it. But when I grabbed the guy off the waiver wire for the worst guy on my team, I'm not selling him the way he is playing. I am going to suck every little bit of life out of this guy because he is helping carry my team to the top.

I just think it's over-managing to trade a guy this hot. I have seen guys take the approach over and over again that you trade a guy like Lee. And because there are Lee doubters, you are unlikely to get a top-3 pick for him.

So, just stick with him and be happy. He is playing too good to trade him. Unless you are going to get a Johann Santana type pitcher, I am going to keep the guy who is putting up Johann Santana number until I am given a reason to to get rid of him.

To dump him for second-rate talent is to over-manage.
kcs261
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1661
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby Tiki1311 » Mon May 12, 2008 10:28 pm

Unassisted triple play helped with that. It doesn't seem hardly fair for the hottest pitcher since the deadball era to get that kind of defensive help. I keep waiting for the real Cliff Lee to stand up, but the guy keeps putting donuts on the scoreboard. I wouldn't be hating Cliff nearly soooo much if my arch rival in a h2h league wasn't the guy that nabbed him after his first start.
Tiki1311
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 43
Joined: 10 May 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby mweir145 » Mon May 12, 2008 10:36 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:8-o 9 shutout innings.

In addition to playing a terrible offensive team tonight, he got incredibly lucky on a few occasions to limit it to zero ER. It was my first chance to watch him this year, and I really don't think he can keep anywhere near this kind of production up.
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 10)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby Oatsdad » Mon May 12, 2008 11:12 pm

At some point, don't all the "Cliff Lee really isn't any good" doubters have to admit maybe - just maybe - they're wrong? How many spectacular outing does he need to throw out before he gets some respect?

Yeah, maybe he'll collapse sooner than later - and maybe he won't. I smell some sour grapes in some of these posts... :-t
Oatsdad
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1295
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Cliff Lee for real?

Postby kcs261 » Mon May 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Sour grapes is right for many. On the other hand, I have seen many in my league get lucky with a Lee type guy, get nervous, trade him for a slumping (buy low) stud only to see Lee (sell high) type guy continue playing like a top pick, while the slumping stud (who everybody says to buy low) continues to slump. (I have one guy in my league who literally ruins his team every year with this approach, but he keeps doing it.)

Look, if you can get Santana, A-Rod, Pujols or that type of player for Lee, I would do it real quick. But if you aren't getting that kind of player, or a former stupd player who is ice cold is the offer, just be happy and keep Lee.

Trading him is silly the way he is pitching. Don't do it.
kcs261
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1661
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: buiviopaufamp and 12 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Sep. 1
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Philadelphia at Atlanta
(1:10 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Boston at Tampa Bay
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Minnesota at Baltimore
(1:35 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(2:15 pm)
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(4:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(4:05 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(4:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(4:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(8:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact