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Deciding which closers to start?

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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby bigh0rt » Tue May 06, 2008 5:27 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Yes, as I said, I understand the argument. It's just rubbish. Papelbon/Rivera, Jenks/Nathan, K-Rod/Putz, Hoffman/Saito. None of these closers have had issues racking up saves due to another closer in their division. This is over-thinking at it's finest.


It's not an argument it's an observation and as usual a very intelligent one at that.

If your two closers are from the same division you get 15 games where you cannot get more than 1 save from your two closers. Fact. It just can't happen.

If your two closers are from different leagues (besides them playing each other for 3 games in Inter league play which is reasonably unlikely) you do not have this issue. That is potentially 15 saves you are missing out on all things being equal. It's not a major factor but it is a factor all the same.

And my observation is that it is a non-issue. There is an exception to this observation in nearly every division, where closers rack up saves despite facing each other 13 - 15 times a season. I understand the observation, however, and think its a good track of thinking, despite disagreeing with it.
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby NZ Eff » Tue May 06, 2008 5:39 pm

bigh0rt wrote:And my observation is that it is a non-issue. There is an exception to this observation in nearly every division, where closers rack up saves despite facing each other 13 - 15 times a season. I understand the observation, however, and think its a good track of thinking, despite disagreeing with it.


:-? No one is denying that Putz and K-Rod still get plenty of saves despite facing each other 15 times a year. MOD EDIT: Unnecessary

If you have two closers that play in the same division then in 15 games of the year or approx. 15-20 IP of your pitching allocation you can only get 1 save from both of those closers combined.

And once again I repeat, no it's not a significant factor but it is a factor all the same. As are a ton of other factors we consider when drafting our FBB teams.
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby jake_harv88 » Tue May 06, 2008 5:44 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:And my observation is that it is a non-issue. There is an exception to this observation in nearly every division, where closers rack up saves despite facing each other 13 - 15 times a season. I understand the observation, however, and think its a good track of thinking, despite disagreeing with it.


:-? No one is denying that Putz and K-Rod still get plenty of saves despite facing each other 15 times a year. As usual the point has been completely lost on you. So once again very slowly for those with brains the size of BH.

If you have two closers that play in the same division then in 15 games of the year or approx. 15-20 IP of your pitching allocation you can only get 1 save from both of those closers combined.

And once again I repeat, no it's not a significant factor but it is a factor all the same. As are a ton of other factors we consider when drafting our FBB teams.


Never have I ever seen anyone be more vehemently wrong in my entire life. I agree with BigH0rt you are over thinking the situation. Making it harder for yourself...

Why can't we all just get a long :-D
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby BJSFAN123 » Tue May 06, 2008 5:45 pm

I don't see how closers pitching in the same division means anything..I even sometimes like when my closers face each other, I usually get a save out of it.

In the end, it won't affect how many save opps each closer gets..
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby NZ Eff » Tue May 06, 2008 5:50 pm

Give it some thought boys ;-)
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby jake_harv88 » Tue May 06, 2008 6:23 pm

NZ Eff wrote:Give it some thought boys ;-)


A counter opinion to you my good man...

Two closers in the same division play each other 13-15 times a year. That means that in 13-15 game you are GARUNTEED a save from one of them (obviously there are exceptions to this). Obviously this isn't 100% true, and i'm not saying that you should go out and draft based on this theory. But I think this fact alone is enough to make me not consider not drafting closers in the same division (I think i said that right)...
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby Yoda » Tue May 06, 2008 6:28 pm

Wouldn't carrying too many closers so that you can't start them all at the same time be just wasting your roster spot? There are always teams looking for saves unless you are in a really shallow league. You are better off trading one for something that you need.
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby NZ Eff » Tue May 06, 2008 6:30 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:
NZ Eff wrote:Give it some thought boys ;-)


A counter opinion to you my good man...

Two closers in the same division play each other 13-15 times a year. That means that in 13-15 game you are GARUNTEED a save from one of them (obviously there are exceptions to this). Obviously this isn't 100% true, and i'm not saying that you should go out and draft based on this theory. But I think this fact alone is enough to make me not consider not drafting closers in the same division (I think i said that right)...



You've just shot yourself in the foot and completely proven my point.

You are no more garanteed a save by having two closers in one game than by having two closers in different games. On the other hand you simply cannot get two saves 15 times a year if you have two closers in the same division. That is a fact that cannot be refuted and if you gave this some proper thought as I advised you would understand. With two closers in two different games it is possible to get a save 100% of the time.

MOD EDIT: Once again, completely unnecessary
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby jake_harv88 » Tue May 06, 2008 6:34 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
jake_harv88 wrote:
NZ Eff wrote:Give it some thought boys ;-)


A counter opinion to you my good man...

Two closers in the same division play each other 13-15 times a year. That means that in 13-15 game you are GARUNTEED a save from one of them (obviously there are exceptions to this). Obviously this isn't 100% true, and i'm not saying that you should go out and draft based on this theory. But I think this fact alone is enough to make me not consider not drafting closers in the same division (I think i said that right)...



You've just shot yourself in the foot and completely proven my point.

You are no more garanteed a save by having two closers in one game than by having two closers in different games. On the other hand you simply cannot get two saves 15 times a year if you have two closers in the same division. That is a fact that cannot be refuted and if you gave this some proper thought as I advised you would understand. With two closers in two different games it is possible to get a save 100% of the time.


Man I told myself to be silent in this. :-D

You are definitely more guaranteed a save when two closers play each other because one of those teams has to win. When closes play separately you can't even guarantee a win.

'nough said ;-D
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Re: Deciding which closers to start?

Postby NZ Eff » Tue May 06, 2008 6:48 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:
Man I told myself to be silent in this. :-D

You are definitely more guaranteed a save when two closers play each other because one of those teams has to win. When closes play separately you can't even guarantee a win.

'nough said ;-D



Ahhh, the old winning% to save % correlation theory.

MLB teams combined win 50 % of the time on average. That is obvious as for every winner there has to be a loser. That means that if you have 2 pitchers in two different games their team will on avg. win 50 % of the time. If you have 2 closers in the same game then each of their respective teams has a 50% chance of winning. This all evens out. Where it doesn't even out is on the save front. Only one save can be awarded for each game. Therefore in 15 games a year where you have both closers, in that game you can only get 1 save. Clear as mud.
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