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Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

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Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby kaiser » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:10 am

In another discussion we have been discussing a trade deal involving Ryan Howard, and one owner said "I generally don't deal with people who offer me lowball initial offers."

Every year, I land at least one huge trade that the other guy probably shouldn't have made. Other owners in the league wail about "why in the world did he make that trade with you?" It's because I offered it and caught him at the right time.

I always think it's silly for people to say "I won't deal with someone who lowballs me. It insults my intelligence." Its all relative, and since its almost certain that those people themselves have at some time or another been seen as offering a lowball deal in the eyes of another owner, if we all took that attitude, it would drain much of the fun out of trying to make deals.

What do you all think? Should an owner get insulted if someone sends him an offer he considers a "lowball?"
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby noseeum » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:16 am

Not insulted, but if you're consistently offering me bad deals, I'm not going to waste my time responding to them. If you're not anywhere in the ballpark, I'm not bothering with the conversation. There's low and reasonable, which is something I can work with, and then there's ridiculous.

If all you ever offer is ridiculous, go trade with the waiver wire.
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:17 am

If it is an insulting offer I won't try to trade with that team cause I figure it is a waste of time. First offers should be a starting point so if I get a ridiculous offer I usually just reject and move on. But If I get an offer, even a bad offer I'll usually make an effort to work a trade.
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby WaCougMBS » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:23 am

Although it is obvious that most fantasy players have an average IQ somewhere in the range of 250, it is still hard for me to understand why people get bent out of shape when a lopsided offer is made. There is obviously a reason that the owner made the offer, and it is very rarely, if ever insidious - if they are trying to lowball/rip someone off, they are likely to do it to an unsuspecting newbie anyway. Usually an initial offer is nothing more than thinking out loud.

Its sometimes hard to know the other owner's motivations or what guys they overvalue and will fiercely defend and vice versus. Unless you are best friends with the guy, the only way to know is to put an offer on the table. The way I see it, if your first offer gets accepted, then you gave away too much. Better to offer a borderline deal or one slightly in your favor so you can negotiate some sort of middle ground. If that insults someone's intelligence, then so be it. These aren't hardly ever big-money leagues, so you could probably include a clause in the trade response that instructs them to lighten up ;-)
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby AussieDodger » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:31 am

There is low, and then there is rubbish.

Some owners will start pretty low in a "start a trade conversation" kind of way which is OK. ;-D These are the people that realize you can't insult someone's intelligence if you want to deal with them harmoniously in future.

Then there are the morons who offer waiver crud for your best players, and do it on a consistent basis. You clearly state what you like and don't like in the trade comments box and a week later the same crap is offered to you. These are the people who should be burned at the stake. We have one of those guys in one of my dynasty leagues, and it is actually possible to trade with him, but it is like pulling teeth.

So short answer - Only if it is on a consistent basis.

Solution: Post their offers on the league chat board, if they don't listen to you over a long period of time.
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby Yoda » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:32 am

Unless it is a complete joke in which case I just reject and ignore, I try to counter offer so that he understands the value of my players. I used to get insulted a long time ago but now it doesn't really bother me.
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby WyldStallyn » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:36 am

if i got insulted by the offers that were put forth to me, i probly would have quit fbb. a lot of owners only want to trade if they are the clear winner. i usually float a fair offer back after receiving one, but those are generally turned down in annoyance
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby Bloody Sox » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:37 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:If it is an insulting offer I won't try to trade with that team cause I figure it is a waste of time. First offers should be a starting point so if I get a ridiculous offer I usually just reject and move on. But If I get an offer, even a bad offer I'll usually make an effort to work a trade.

I agree completely with this. If the "lowball" offer is a starting off point to get the conversation started, then fine. If the lowball offer is complete crap, then I would consider it insulting and wouldn't bother negotiating.
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby Bloody Sox » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:42 am

WaCougMBS wrote:Although it is obvious that most fantasy players have an average IQ somewhere in the range of 250, it is still hard for me to understand why people get bent out of shape when a lopsided offer is made. There is obviously a reason that the owner made the offer, and it is very rarely, if ever insidious - if they are trying to lowball/rip someone off, they are likely to do it to an unsuspecting newbie anyway. Usually an initial offer is nothing more than thinking out loud.

Its sometimes hard to know the other owner's motivations or what guys they overvalue and will fiercely defend and vice versus. Unless you are best friends with the guy, the only way to know is to put an offer on the table. The way I see it, if your first offer gets accepted, then you gave away too much. Better to offer a borderline deal or one slightly in your favor so you can negotiate some sort of middle ground. If that insults someone's intelligence, then so be it. These aren't hardly ever big-money leagues, so you could probably include a clause in the trade response that instructs them to lighten up ;-)

If you offer a deal slightly in your favor (e.g. Brandon Webb for Hanley Ramirez), that is not a low-ball and should not insult someone's intelligence. If you make someone a retarded offer (e.g. Cliff Lee for Hanley Ramirez), that is pretty insulting.
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Re: Should people get insulted at being Lowballed?

Postby Russell James » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:43 am

I never get angry when the first offer is a lowball offer. It is a rare occurrence in most of my leagues that a trade offer is accepted in the first offer. Usually, the first offer is a feeler trade. It begs the question, "How much do you want for this guy?"

I will start insulting openly when one of my counter offers is countered back with a lowball offer. In a counter offer I am telling you how much I value a player. If that happens often with a particular player then I won't even consider trying to trade with them.

Bottomline: I am not stupid and I am not going to give away my guys for free. Some idiot tried to lowball me with David Wright this season. He sends me an offer of 4 scrubs for David Wright, I then counter by sending him David Wright for Markakis and Webb. He then sends me 3 scrubs and Wellemeyer for Wright. At that point I was done. It was obvious that this guy only wanted to screw me and I don't like to deal with people like that.

You actually sound like that type of person. I am not against making a great trade, but when you are constantly trying to screw others over, that is what lowballing is, then be prepared to deal with the backlash from it. I can't actually blame your league members for harassing you on it. Hopefully the idiots that actually made that dumb trade with you will see that and not make a future mistake.
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