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Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

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Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby phorts » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 pm

Sorry for the long post, but i'm in a predicament and could use some outside advice. I feel it's best to give the background on the league when asking for moral support. Thanks in advance for helping and certainly will Help in Return.

I run my own Y! Plus League and have been doing so for the past 4 years. Most of the same people have been playing for the past 4 years with some new faces in and out. It's not a highly competitive league by any means, but I try to keep it lighthearted and fun...

Anyways, this year there's been a LOT of trading activity going on and i've been on the forefront. I feel like i've won in most of the trades i've gotten done, but some managers are giving me crap for using my friendship/commish status unfairly to get trades done in my favor. In other words, they think i'm taking advantage of the other, less astute managers.

I've been having to justify each trade and defend myself against these accusations. In the end people just throw their hands up and say "whatever dude...". I can get defense at times so i'm posting here to ask how other commish's might handle this situation. Here's some of my trades that i've put through.

1. My Adam Wainright for his JJ Hardy (Bad trade for me)
2. My Brad Hawpe for his Ian Kinsler (I'm likin Kinsler this year and Hawpe was a BN OF for me)
3. My Adam Dunn for his Carolos Guillen (Could go either way but so far is working out as my first trade for a SS was a bust)

Those 2 trades were with the two owners I get the most flac from, so naturally they were OK with those. Here's some that I was able to pull off with other managers.

1. My Figgins/Felix/Volquez for his Sizemore/Verlander - So far this has been killing me. I played this guy last week and i got to see Felix/Volquez twice each.. I played Verlander twice and got two lousy starts. I drafted Figgins in round 4 this year (very high but I like him). So i feel this was a good trade both ways as he needed pitching and I needed more power without losing too much speed and I had a surplus in pitching. Needless to say i got some heat for this... but ultimately people calmed down.

2. My Kazmir/Bay for his Vlad Guerrero - Different Manager. He needed pitching BADLY and had SERIOUS surplus in OF. (Hamilton, Markakis, Rios, Vlad, and 2 others). We talked about Beckett for Vlad and he was down but ultimately i sent over Kaz/Bay. He accepted and again, i got crap for it. Mainly because one of the crap givers dropped Bay off his team because I was callin him useless (because i wanted him to drop him so i could get him). I think I won on this deal but people saw it differently as Kaz was on the DL and he didnt need OF. Hey, i have to admit i felt a little guilty about it, but I also know that i've put through much more questionable trades...

3. My Vlad/Reynolds for his Holliday - Different Manager again - This is the trade that put people over the edge tonight as it was just accepted. I got 3 texts within 15 minutes from managers going apey Saying "No way dude!". I mean, Vlad is NASTY and Reynolds is on a tear...i sold high on reynolds and i'm not confident on Vladdy this year. Again, i think I won in this deal but he needed to upgrade at 3B (He has a slumpy Zimmerman) while not losing too much at OF. He has Holliday, McClouth, Justin Upton, and Chris Young. Not too shabby.


So, as the commish people think i'm taking advantage of these guys. I feel bad.... i want to keep things fair and I want to keep the peace.

Are these trades unfair? What would you do?

Thanks again for your help.


PS: Other trades that I have passed in the league: ( I have not vetoed a trade yet and will only veto if I feel there is tampering involved or if there is not full disclosure between both parties, ie. a player is heading to the DL and a manager tries to trade them before the other player figures it out)

Rich Hill for Todd Jones
Snell/Church for Ichiro
Ichiro for V. Wells
Magglio for Teix
Magglio/Haren/Saito for Wells/Hamels
Oswalt/Saito for Delgado
Last edited by phorts on Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:06 pm

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Man up crybaby. Im sorry, but thats what happens. In most leagues the commish takes crap for any good trade. He has an advantage because he knows everyone else usually (where other players may only know a couple other guys) and is usually the most active trader. Therefor they take crap. Grow up and get a pair.
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby phorts » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:47 pm

Wow,

Well now, that was a completely useless post. First of all, i'm not cryin, bud. Second, I'm pretty confident that this is a pretty common situation so i'm merely asking how other managers handle this situation as it's bound to come up.

So, anyways, does anyone have any experiene with this? I dont want to come off as a tyrant and tell everyone to stop whining and grow a pair like the previous poster suggested. Any constructive suggestions are greatly appreciated... all others need not respond.

thank you
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby CruiseJD » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:22 pm

As player-commish, you are subject to more scrutiny than other players. In fact, you have a built in conflict of interest because you are both a player and the commish. It is similar to being both a player in a game and an umpire of a game at the same time. There is no way to avoid higher scrutiny.

With that said, I am careful in how I handle the responsibility. The way I handle it is to avoid trades I think are unbalanced in my favor. Yes, I may leave some value on the table. But that is worth it to me to promote and keep league harmony. I will approve unbalanced trades by other managers, but I will not enter into a trade unbalanced in my favor. There is of course some subjectivity in this.

I have no problems with any of the trades you listed. However, if I thought they might cause problems I would think very hard before pulling the trigger. Others may disagree with my philosophy, but that is the burden I think a player-commish should take.
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby phorts » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:06 am

Thank you for that insight.

I generally follow exactly that philosophy. My problem is that i'm pretty competetive, and the 6 or 7 other players in the league that share this competetiveness I see on a regular basis (i work closely with the 2 most active/competitive/knowledgeable managers in the league). My team was weak in Offense out of the draft so i've dumped my heavy pitching (Wainwright, Felix, Volquez, Kaz) in return for Offense (Vlad, Sizemore, Kinsler). I'm playing the game as I think it should be played.... as I would want it handled should this be another commish.

But i'm unsure of my current predicament, and if i could ask you, what would you do in this situation.

An unexperienced player in my league gave up his Holliday for my Vlad/Reynolds. Since it's a two for 1 and I was able to sell him on that Reynolds being an upgrade over Zimmerman, he has Zimmerman being dropped in the transaction. The trade is pending review of commish (me)...but i'm hesitant to put it through...

I mentioned to my two colleagues at work today and they told me that was a ridiculous trade and that no way it got accepted if the Holliday owner had half a brain. Well, it's accepted and now I gotta make a decision. Put it through and hear it for the rest of the year, or disallow and offer a more favorable deal to the unexperienced Holliday owner?

My Offense:

C: Ryan Doumit
1B: Prince Fielder
2B: Ian Kinsler
SS: Carlos Guillen
3B: Miggy Cabrera
OF: Gradey Sizemore
OF: Vlad Guerrero
OF: Torii Hunter
Util: Mark Reynolds
BN: Hunter Pence


His Offense:

C: Vic Martinez
1B: Casey Kotchman
2B: BJ Upton
SS: Johnny Perralta
3B: Ryan Zimmerman
OF: Matt Holliday
OF: Chris Young
OF: Nate McClouth
Util: Justin Upton
BN: Jorge Posada


Thank you so much for your valuable insight....
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby noseeum » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:07 am

If you've set the tone that all trade will be approved so long as there is no collusion and people should never be complaining about "league balance" or any other crap like that, than tell them to suck it up and get to work.

Tell them people trade with you because you're active and always engaging in conversations. If they want deals done, get on the phones.
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby noseeum » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:10 am

As commish, you shouldn't be hosing the inexperienced guys. It's your job to keep them interested, not to trounce them so they quit. Especially since you recruited them into the league, it makes it look like you picked up some suckers so you could beat the good players. And what's the fun in that?
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby phorts » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:27 am

noseeum wrote:
If you've set the tone that all trade will be approved so long as there is no collusion and people should never be complaining about "league balance" or any other crap like that, than tell them to suck it up and get to work.

Tell them people trade with you because you're active and always engaging in conversations. If they want deals done, get on the phones.




noseeum wrote:
As commish, you shouldn't be hosing the inexperienced guys. It's your job to keep them interested, not to trounce them so they quit. Especially since you recruited them into the league, it makes it look like you picked up some suckers so you could beat the good players. And what's the fun in that?



I appreciate your insight, however I can't help but feel like those two comments are a little contradictory. It certainly is NOT my intention to "Hose" anyone, much less a friend.

With this I ask if you could answer this question. Do you think that my Vlad/Reynolds for his Holliday would be considered a hosing by your standards? If so, what do you think would be a more fair trade to this manager to that benefits both teams?

Thank You again for your valuable insight.
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby noseeum » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:21 am

phorts wrote:
noseeum wrote:
If you've set the tone that all trade will be approved so long as there is no collusion and people should never be complaining about "league balance" or any other crap like that, than tell them to suck it up and get to work.

Tell them people trade with you because you're active and always engaging in conversations. If they want deals done, get on the phones.




noseeum wrote:
As commish, you shouldn't be hosing the inexperienced guys. It's your job to keep them interested, not to trounce them so they quit. Especially since you recruited them into the league, it makes it look like you picked up some suckers so you could beat the good players. And what's the fun in that?



I appreciate your insight, however I can't help but feel like those two comments are a little contradictory. It certainly is NOT my intention to "Hose" anyone, much less a friend.

With this I ask if you could answer this question. Do you think that my Vlad/Reynolds for his Holliday would be considered a hosing by your standards? If so, what do you think would be a more fair trade to this manager to that benefits both teams?

Thank You again for your valuable insight.


Yeah, they are contradictory, but I didn't see your last post until I submitted my first post. It's really not that bad of a deal. I just meant to say, if you're torn about it, as you alluded to, then maybe you should re-work it. Personally, I think Zimmerman's going to stink this year. If this is an 8 team league, he probably deserves to be cut. He's got talent, but he's had wrist surgery. Wait till '09. I think the deal is pretty fair. I just meant, if you feel bad about it, talk to the guy again about Zimmerman. If it's obvious he doesn't know what he's doing, then give him a chance to back out. I've done this as commish before when a deal got controversial. If it became clear to me personally that the guy was not doing his research and I hosed him (even if I thought there was a fair argument for the trade), I reversed it and privately instructed the owner to do his homework next time because I won't be so nice in the future.
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Re: Getting Crap for Trades as Commish - What to do?

Postby CruiseJD » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:53 am

phorts wrote:But i'm unsure of my current predicament, and if i could ask you, what would you do in this situation.

An unexperienced player in my league gave up his Holliday for my Vlad/Reynolds. Since it's a two for 1 and I was able to sell him on that Reynolds being an upgrade over Zimmerman, he has Zimmerman being dropped in the transaction. The trade is pending review of commish (me)...but i'm hesitant to put it through...

I mentioned to my two colleagues at work today and they told me that was a ridiculous trade and that no way it got accepted if the Holliday owner had half a brain. Well, it's accepted and now I gotta make a decision. Put it through and hear it for the rest of the year, or disallow and offer a more favorable deal to the unexperienced Holliday owner?


It is not a "ridiculous" trade, though I would rate it slightly unbalanced in your favor. Vlad could put up very close numbers to Holliday and Reynolds is worth taking a chance on. It is a trade I would quickly approve for other managers. However, I would probably not do the trade myself - especially if I knew it would cause ripples. To be honest, it is very very close to being balanced-slightly unbalanced.

Here is the other issue you need to address. You need to make sure that these other 2 managers are not using your position as Commish to take advantage of you. Bobbleheadrusty did have a point in that you must have a backbone. Make a decision and stick to it. If these managers are going to try and derail every trade you enter into by using the biased Commish argument, then I would look for a new league. They either have no credibility and are willing to do anything to affect your trades or they do not trust you as a Commish - either way, I would be looking to play with other people or vacate the job. I consider this "meta-game" maneuvering, and it is not appropriate.
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