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Can a Team be Too Good?

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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby jake_twothousandfive » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:40 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:theres absolutely no way in the world you should suggest this guy give a bad team some players. for starters, its a money league so thats an instant no. i hope this is your team we're talking about.

It is my team...I just don't want to be the reason we stop having fun in the league
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby redwings » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:49 pm

I've played in 8 team leagues before. You are not as stacked as you think. Every team has studs, and top ten talent at every position. You're pitching is a little weak. You've had a good first 3 weeks of the season and are feeling a little full of yourself. You don't have anything in the bag, trust me.
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby jake_twothousandfive » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:02 am

fezzik wrote:Not big fan of the pitching...for an 8-teamer the offense is very good, but I don't see the pitching holding up over the course of the season...weak RP's...even the SP's seem only average to me for an 8-teamer. Nothing to get too worried about...and of course nobody should be giving up...and he shouldn't be pawning off his bats...that's silly. :-t

Here's the second best team for comparisons sake:

Batters
C - Russell Martin (LAD - C)
1B - Mark Teixeira (Atl - 1B)
2B - Jeff Kent (LAD - 2B)
3B - Chipper Jones (Atl - 3B)
SS - Hanley Ramirez (Fla - SS)
OF - Eric Byrnes (Ari - OF)
OF - Chris Young (Ari - OF)
OF - Josh Hamilton (Tex - OF)
Util - Kevin Youkilis (Bos - 1B,3B)
BN - Dan Uggla (Fla - 2B)
BN - Adrian Gonzalez (SD - 1B)
BN - Khalil Greene (SD - SS)
DL - Alfonso Soriano (ChC - OF) DL

Pitchers
SP - Micah Owings (Ari - SP)
SP - Brad Penny (LAD - SP)
SP - Erik Bedard (Sea - SP) DL
RP - Jonathan Papelbon (Bos - RP)
RP - Todd Jones (Det - RP)
P - Ervin Santana (LAA - SP)
P - Ted Lilly (ChC - SP)
P - Ben Sheets (Mil - SP)
BN - Oliver Perez (NYM - SP)
BN - Joe Saunders (LAA - SP)
BN - Rich Hill (ChC - SP)
DL - Joe Borowski (Cle - RP) DL
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby Snakes Gould » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:10 am

ive been in leagues before (money league, it was actually football) where i had one of the best teams you could ever want and it took a lot of the fun out of the league and i noticed it. i guess i regretted making a few trades that i did make, since many felt they were lopsided but not vetoable. i ended up losing in the 1st first round of the playoffs (i had the highest score every week for like 13 straight weeks) so anything can happen in a h2h.
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby jake_twothousandfive » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:16 am

Snakes Gould wrote:ive been in leagues before (money league, it was actually football) where i had one of the best teams you could ever want and it took a lot of the fun out of the league and i noticed it. i guess i regretted making a few trades that i did make, since many felt they were lopsided but not vetoable. i ended up losing in the 1st first round of the playoffs (i had the highest score every week for like 13 straight weeks) so anything can happen in a h2h.

This is true...I've lost leagues like this before too...Having success in the regular season does not mean you'll have it in the post season.

I was just afraid of not having fun like you said. I'm just going to go with it...it is a money league after all.
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby DaShiz23 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:21 am

i think having a 'stacked' team can actually hurt you sometimes. you end up falling in love with your guys and dont have any movable parts. to be successful over a full year, you have to hit the WW for drops and hot players, who have the potential to keep it up the rest of the year.
never would i make 'bad' trades to just even out the league. you never know what can happen, and would be real upset if you ended up not first, especially in a money league.
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:27 am

Personally, I'm not crazy about leagues shallower than 12 teams, mainly for the reason that you can consolidate your team with 2-for-1's, 3-for-2's given the deep quality of the FA pool. Given this is a keeper/dynasty league, it's foreseeable in the long run you've consolidated a team over time that is more than a cut above the rest of the pack. Furthermore, a keeper/dynasty league is likely to bridge the gap between what's a quality team and what isn't.

Can a team be too good? I tend to think there's no such thing. You can come close to perfection or reach it even, but you don't achieve it with a team that's not without a weakness or two (with respect to your team, it's RP). I also don't believe in a mercy rule to give away a player or two to increase competitiveness, let alone sustain continued interest.

That said, this probably means you should look for a tougher league just because your gamesmanship has led to the best possible result on paper but it can also lead to ennui, even if you do lose. Now, if I can manage to snag a team like that in the most competitive league I can ever find, I'd be more than happy, but it does take away the thrill of the challenge. More times than not, it's just more fun to win a league where you have 3/4's of the league that has equal parts of strengths and weaknesses to suggest parity, more fun to win it if you pull out a team that overperforms.
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby Sensei » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:48 am

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I'm going through the exact same thing in my 6x6 auction keeper league. I just made a trade to give me Peavy that isn't horrible by any means, but I'm dominating offense already and my starters are now super stacked. The deal may yet be canceled by people protesting (Yahoo! Plus League), not cause it's so unfair but because I'm ahead of 2nd place by 30 points already and getting one of the best SP's in a deal that doesn't hurt my offense at all (it was J. Vazquez/C.B. Young/Bourne for Peavy). Here's what my team will be if it goes through. And yes, poor RP's, but winning saves and with my top 4 SP's, who cares. I don't wanna make everyone give up and pack it in for the year, or worse leave the league.

10-person Roto Auction Keeper 6x6 (w/ Losses & OPS).

C Bengie Molina (SF - C)
1B Albert Pujols (StL - 1B)
2B B.J. Upton (TB - 2B,OF)
3B Miguel Cabrera (Det - 3B)
SS Carlos Guillen (Det - 1B,SS)
OF Manny Ramirez (Bos - OF)
OF Lance Berkman (Hou - 1B,OF)
OF Jacoby Ellsbury (Bos - OF)
Util Travis Hafner (Cle - 1B)
BN Lastings Milledge (Was - OF)
BN Jason Varitek (Bos - C)
BN Joe Crede (CWS - 3B)
DL Shane Victorino (Phi - OF) DL


SP Jake Peavy (SD - SP)
SP Brandon Webb (Ari - SP)
SP Cole Hamels (Phi - SP)
DL Scott Kazmir (TB - SP) DL
BN Shaun Marcum (Tor - SP,RP)
RP Jonathon Broxton (LAD - RP)
RP Trevor Hoffman (SD - RP)
P George Sherrill (Bal - RP)
P Brian Wilson (SF - RP)
P Brandon Lyon (Ari - RP)
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby MashinSpuds » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:04 am

Sometimes it's better strategy to try to prevent such a team from occurring (at least on paper). There is nothing one can really do about a good draft unless the other drafters are idiots, so you'll have to concede that the guy can draft well. It's the trades that you and your leaguemates have to be careful about.

I offered a trade in one of my leagues that I thought was fair, but the other owner rejected it not on the grounds of the players or needs, but because he thought my outfield would have been too unstoppable after the move. He made the effort to look at my team and assess that the trade would have helped him but could have helped me more. I thought it was a smart thing for him to do, and though I don't know what kind of trades went on in your league for this guy to get the team he did, it's the responsibility of those other owners to make sure they're not helping to build a monster.

I agree with other posters in that you can't count yourself out this early on. I would just be careful in the future and try to anticipate how trades will affect the other team instead of just one's own.
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Re: Can a Team be Too Good?

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:04 am

Sensei wrote:I'll throw my 2 cents in. I'm going through the exact same thing in my 6x6 auction keeper league. I just made a trade to give me Peavy that isn't horrible by any means, but I'm dominating offense already and my starters are now super stacked. The deal may yet be canceled by people protesting (Yahoo! Plus League), not cause it's so unfair but because I'm ahead of 2nd place by 30 points already and getting one of the best SP's in a deal that doesn't hurt my offense at all (it was J. Vazquez/C.B. Young/Bourne for Peavy). Here's what my team will be if it goes through. And yes, poor RP's, but winning saves and with my top 4 SP's, who cares. I don't wanna make everyone give up and pack it in for the year, or worse leave the league.

10-person Roto Auction Keeper 6x6 (w/ Losses & OPS).

C Bengie Molina (SF - C)
1B Albert Pujols (StL - 1B)
2B B.J. Upton (TB - 2B,OF)
3B Miguel Cabrera (Det - 3B)
SS Carlos Guillen (Det - 1B,SS)
OF Manny Ramirez (Bos - OF)
OF Lance Berkman (Hou - 1B,OF)
OF Jacoby Ellsbury (Bos - OF)
Util Travis Hafner (Cle - 1B)
BN Lastings Milledge (Was - OF)
BN Jason Varitek (Bos - C)
BN Joe Crede (CWS - 3B)
DL Shane Victorino (Phi - OF) DL


SP Jake Peavy (SD - SP)
SP Brandon Webb (Ari - SP)
SP Cole Hamels (Phi - SP)
DL Scott Kazmir (TB - SP) DL
BN Shaun Marcum (Tor - SP,RP)
RP Jonathon Broxton (LAD - RP)
RP Trevor Hoffman (SD - RP)
P George Sherrill (Bal - RP)
P Brian Wilson (SF - RP)
P Brandon Lyon (Ari - RP)

I don't think this team is a lock to win anything. Pujols is far from a lock to play the full season, Hamels should have his DL stint at some point, Kazmir's already having his first. Your RPs may be leading you in SV now, but in a 10-teamer, I don't think it keeps up, especially if Hoffman keeps blowing saves like he's trying for that record, too. Marcum's had a great start, but there's no guarantee he keeps up, same with Ellsbury. A few ticky tack injuries to Berkman or Upton, and this starts crumbling. It's April, guys. Nobody's won their leagues quite yet.
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