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W vs QS

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Re: W vs QS

Postby Matthias » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:39 am

I like that compromise.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby JakeTrain72 » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:53 am

In points-based leagues, you can easily compromise to include both elements. I like IP getting in on the action for points based leagues as well. With W, IP, QS all having value you have a fairer, all-around, representation of points given actual performance.

In Roto I'd say you are better off stick with Wins. If you want to tinker with it just use net wins. This stat allows great season long strategy, giving middle releivers a place in fantasy as well. Going to QS in Roto would require adding holds to keep middle releivers relevant. Since they are relevant in the actual game, I feel they should have a place in fantasy as well.

In H2H leagues QS gain more momentum imo because it is weekly. I'd still stick with Wins, but the fact you can have a dominating pitching week but end up with no Wins to show for it and lose that cat for the week is frustrating at times. I'd want to see holds added if you went to QS.

I like the creation of a single relief cat that combines Saves + Holds + relief Wins - relief Losses - BS. not sure what you'd call it, maybe something like relief pitching efficeincy or effective relief pitching. This would reduce the value of closers in general and make the relief pitchers who are the best at getting batters out the most valuable regardless of what role or inning they pitch. We don't create a stat for hitters' AVG w/RISP after the 7th inning. Yet that is similar to a save opp or hold for a hitter.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:00 pm

cwrtlm wrote:I am thinking of bringing this up in our league as well. Maybe 5 points per QS and 5 points per W? Something along those lines, right now it is 10 points per W and nothing for a QS.

We do that in my points league now. A QS is worth twice what a W/L chimes in at.

Of course, neither are worth much compared to IP (or outs). A pitcher scores way more points in my league by just getting outs. The other stats are more descriptive of the quality of the outing itself.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby Yoda » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:12 pm

I wished that I could use QS in my leagues over W. W is completely random and QS would boost the value of starting pitchers more (especially good ones) which makes sense given how volatile pitching is to begin with.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby tmlfan4ever » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:07 pm

I don't like the QS stat at all.

6IP and 3ER is a 4.50 ERA... not something too spectacular.

A win is a win and if you're worried about "bad" teams, then build that into your valuation of pitchers. I also think "W minus L" is making an even bigger problem out of the situation because as much as bad pitchers can get a win in a high scoring game, a pitcher can have a fantastic game and still get pegged with a loss if his team gets shut out or held to only a run or two.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:18 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:I don't like the QS stat at all.

6IP and 3ER is a 4.50 ERA... not something too spectacular.

And a team-dependent stat that can change after the pitcher leaves the game is better?

I understand that QS isn't perfect, but it's certainly way ahead of anything else out there.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby Matthias » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:19 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:I also think "W minus L" is making an even bigger problem out of the situation because as much as bad pitchers can get a win in a high scoring game, a pitcher can have a fantastic game and still get pegged with a loss if his team gets shut out or held to only a run or two.

Sure, but the benefits are that it penalizes and thus discourages churning or even acquiring questionable pitching and thus makes you think about who you're starting instead of just throwing someone up there because they have a start. Also there's a fair share of mediocre pitchers who might go 12-10 (or 2 net wins), but it's pretty rare for a mediocre pitcher to be able to finish with a record around 18-5 (13 net wins). So it rewards the truly great pitching; you can't equal one ace with two journeymen which is true in real baseball as well.

Not saying it's perfect or even the best but I've found it to work pretty well so far.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby Yoda » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:20 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:I don't like the QS stat at all.

6IP and 3ER is a 4.50 ERA... not something too spectacular.

A win is a win and if you're worried about "bad" teams, then build that into your valuation of pitchers. I also think "W minus L" is making an even bigger problem out of the situation because as much as bad pitchers can get a win in a high scoring game, a pitcher can have a fantastic game and still get pegged with a loss if his team gets shut out or held to only a run or two.


That line is not spectacular but that is the worst possible scenario for getting a QS.

Compare that to two different scenarios for a W:
A - 5 IP, 5 ER
B- 9 IP, 0 ER

Would you say that A and B equally deserved the W?
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Re: W vs QS

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:25 pm

My bigger complaint with QS isn't the 6 IP/3 ER example... It's the 8 IP/4 ER example. Same ERA, no QS. :-t

The ER aspect of QS actually penalizes a pitcher for going past 6 IP. It should be based on ERA.
Last edited by StlSluggers on Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: W vs QS

Postby Matthias » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:26 pm

Also, I would reiterate that if I was playing in a 1X1, the argument for QS over W or W-L is much greater. But given that it's placed in the context of also accumulating other stats, it's not as persuasive (to me). So it's not just the merits of one stat versus another... it's how does it fit within the entire system.
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