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Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:41 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:For the third time can you please name me some moves that Cash has made that were good. I can think of one and that was a salary dump. The Abreu trade


If you think that a GM should be judged on how many stars he brings in, then you're off-base.

Look at the minor league system. He's responsible for the wealth of young talent on this roster right now. The Yankees have one of the top minor leagues in baseball and they've gotten to that point in a relatively short time period.

Sometimes the best move is a non-move. The Yankees from 2002-2005 didn't make non-moves. They made moves simply for the sake of making a move. That's why they are stuck with a $200 million dollar payroll. They gave ridiculous contracts to guys like Farnsworth and Pavano. The Yankees are now in a position to cut $80 million in payroll after this season and use their money more wisely.

From all accounts I've read, Cashman was responsible for bringing in A-Rod in 2004. It was his idea, and his execution that got the deal done. As you said, he brought in Abreu. He picked up Gary Sheffield's option and dealt him away for arms. He was able to trade Jaret Wright away for Chris Britton. He's the reason that Hughes, Joba and Kennedy are in our rotation rather than guys like Barry Zito and Jason Schmidt. He was able to trade away Randy Johnson for Luis Vizcaino, Ross Ohlendorf and Alberto Gonzalez.

You want to go back to 1998-2001, before George flipped out and started making moves? He traded Wells for Clemens. He brought in David Justice. He signed Soriano. I can keep going if you want. I'm not saying Cashman is an elite GM or anything, I'm just saying that we don't know exactly what he is yet, because he's basically been George's puppet for the better part of 7 years. But I do like the direction that he's taking this team.


I'd agree with all that and he also brought in Matsui from Japan and they've kept him at a pretty low cost.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:13 pm

So another words whenever a bad move is made the excuse is well we don't know who was in charge to make that move. When a good move is made then Cash gets the credit.

Sounds to me like the Torre defense. When they win the world series Torre got the credit and when they lost the excuse was that the playoffs are a crapshoot
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:22 pm

raygunpunx wrote:So another words whenever a bad move is made the excuse is well we don't know who was in charge to make that move. When a good move is made then Cash gets the credit.

Sounds to me like the Torre defense. When they win the world series Torre got the credit and when they lost the excuse was that the playoffs are a crapshoot


I readily admitted that the Igawa signing was a disaster. My point was, since Cashman signed his new deal and the controversy surrounding the 'Tampa guys' seemed to be settled, this team has been run much more efficiently. George has faded out of the picture and the Yankees are now running their team much more intelligently.

I'd love to see some reasoning as to why you don't agree, as I provided ample evidence in my previous post.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby neoforce » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:23 pm

raygunpunx wrote:So another words whenever a bad move is made the excuse is well we don't know who was in charge to make that move. When a good move is made then Cash gets the credit.
...


I know I said he deserves blame for the bad moves when he was in control. BronXBombers51 said the same thing, focused on Igawa.

Its clear we won't change each others minds. But you said there were never any good moves, so we answered with moves he made we liked.

For me, the good moves and direction outweigh the bad moves. No GM can be perfect. I like how things are going for the future.

I understand you don't feel that way, and thats fine. As long as you know there are some people out here who like and respect Cashman.
There are a few things with the New York Yankees that never change. That's pride, tradition, and most of all, we have the greatest fans in the world. -Derek Jeter, 9/21/08 -- last words from old Yankee Stadium
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:47 pm

How about never bringing in a good bullpen guy. How about having one of the worst benches in baseball. how about never getting a long man for the pen. with all the resources the yankees have it is a joke that they can't win a playoff round.

compare what theo has done to what Cash has done.

the jaret wright signing was another cash move because he wanted young hard throwers. Has he ever brought in a pitcher that has worked out?
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:54 pm

raygunpunx wrote:How about never bringing in a good bullpen guy. How about having one of the worst benches in baseball. how about never getting a long man for the pen. with all the resources the yankees have it is a joke that they can't win a playoff round.

compare what theo has done to what Cash has done.

the jaret wright signing was another cash move because he wanted young hard throwers. Has he ever brought in a pitcher that has worked out?


Who has been a good bullpen guy that was signed as a FA by anyone? The Yankees have several good BP arms in the minors now in Cox, Melancon, and Sanchez that could get to the show this season. Also, I'd say the Yankees have one of the strongest benches in the majors right now.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:01 pm

raygunpunx wrote:How about never bringing in a good bullpen guy. How about having one of the worst benches in baseball. how about never getting a long man for the pen. with all the resources the yankees have it is a joke that they can't win a playoff round.

compare what theo has done to what Cash has done.

the jaret wright signing was another cash move because he wanted young hard throwers. Has he ever brought in a pitcher that has worked out?


What bullpen guy would you have liked him to get? Vizcaino and Gordon were very good during their tenures in New York. Worst bench? Who has a 'great bench' in baseball? You don't need a superior bench when every hitter in your lineup is an all-star. A long-man? Like who?

What Theo has done? You mean like sign Julio Lugo? JD Drew? Edgar Renteria? Alex Gonzalez? Matt Clement? Coco Crisp? Spending $100 million dollars on Dice-K? Paying Curt Schilling to be on the DL? Trading Arroyo for WMP? Yeah, he's flawless.

I won't argue that Boston has been a more efficiently run team for the past 5 years, but to say that Cashman is completely at fault is unfair and shows that you aren't aware of how the Yankees' front office has operated since 2001. Again, I don't know what Cashman is. I do know that since he re-signed with the team, and since the 'Tampa faction' has been seemingly put to rest, this team has become a hell of a lot more efficient.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:02 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:How about never bringing in a good bullpen guy. How about having one of the worst benches in baseball. how about never getting a long man for the pen. with all the resources the yankees have it is a joke that they can't win a playoff round.

compare what theo has done to what Cash has done.

the jaret wright signing was another cash move because he wanted young hard throwers. Has he ever brought in a pitcher that has worked out?


Who has been a good bullpen guy that was signed as a FA by anyone? The Yankees have several good BP arms in the minors now in Cox, Melancon, and Sanchez that could get to the show this season. Also, I'd say the Yankees have one of the strongest benches in the majors right now.


Timlin,Okajima and Foulke for Boston. Plus it can also be through trades. Cla Meredith. Heath Bell,Duaner Sanchez,Spier,Marte
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:09 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:How about never bringing in a good bullpen guy. How about having one of the worst benches in baseball. how about never getting a long man for the pen. with all the resources the yankees have it is a joke that they can't win a playoff round.

compare what theo has done to what Cash has done.

the jaret wright signing was another cash move because he wanted young hard throwers. Has he ever brought in a pitcher that has worked out?


What bullpen guy would you have liked him to get? Vizcaino and Gordon were very good during their tenures in New York. Worst bench? Who has a 'great bench' in baseball? You don't need a superior bench when every hitter in your lineup is an all-star. A long-man? Like who?

What Theo has done? You mean like sign Julio Lugo? JD Drew? Edgar Renteria? Alex Gonzalez? Matt Clement? Coco Crisp? Spending $100 million dollars on Dice-K? Paying Curt Schilling to be on the DL? Trading Arroyo for WMP? Yeah, he's flawless.

I won't argue that Boston has been a more efficiently run team for the past 5 years, but to say that Cashman is completely at fault is unfair and shows that you aren't aware of how the Yankees' front office has operated since 2001. Again, I don't know what Cashman is. I do know that since he re-signed with the team, and since the 'Tampa faction' has been seemingly put to rest, this team has become a hell of a lot more efficient.



Gordon was the one decent guy he brought in but the guy could not pitch in the playoffs. Yes in fact it does pay to have a speed guy on your bench who can come in late in the game to steal a base. A long man like every other team i n baseball has but instead their long man is Russ Olendorff. Lugo was a bad deal. This is Drew's second year and have you seen what he is hitting this year? Gonzalez was not a big money guy. Renteria was only there for 1 year.

Dice K would be the Yankees ace right now. Yes Schilling only helped them win a world series.

I'm still waiting for the starting pitcher that cash has brought in that has worked out.

I'm not saying Cash is awful but to say he is one of the best gm's is a joke
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:10 pm

raygunpunx wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:How about never bringing in a good bullpen guy. How about having one of the worst benches in baseball. how about never getting a long man for the pen. with all the resources the yankees have it is a joke that they can't win a playoff round.

compare what theo has done to what Cash has done.

the jaret wright signing was another cash move because he wanted young hard throwers. Has he ever brought in a pitcher that has worked out?


Who has been a good bullpen guy that was signed as a FA by anyone? The Yankees have several good BP arms in the minors now in Cox, Melancon, and Sanchez that could get to the show this season. Also, I'd say the Yankees have one of the strongest benches in the majors right now.


Timlin,Okajima and Foulke for Boston. Plus it can also be through trades. Cla Meredith. Heath Bell,Duaner Sanchez,Spier,Marte


Timlin has been a great signing? Really? He's an adequate middle reliever at best. At worst, he's the guy with the 4.36 ERA and 1.47 WHIP he posted in 2006.

Keith Foulke had exactly ONE great season in Boston...2004. In 2005 he posted a 5.91 ERA and in 2006 he posted a 4.35. Yeah, that signing surely has me envious. Plus Foulke was signed as a CLOSER, not a middle reliever.

Fair enough on Okajima, but by nearly all accounts, he was a surprise in Boston. They signed him so that Dice-K would feel more comfortable. Obviously he paid off significantly last year.

And who would you want the Yankees to give up for those relievers? You don't get things for free. You want to continue to deplete the minor league system for MRs? Be my guest. I'll take my chances and save my money on guys like Ohlendorf, Sanchez, Ramirez, Albaladejo, etc.
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