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Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby neoforce » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:28 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:...
First of all, to blame Cashman solely for all the Yankees misfortune just shows how little you know about how the Yankees have been run for the past eight years. Cashman is not responsible for all of the terrible moves. ... It wasn't until Cashman re-signed his new deal and George faded out that he really gained control of the team, and it shows, as they have moved in a much more desirable direction, cutting costs and revamping the minor league system into one of the best in baseball.
...

To say this team is in bad shape is short-sighted. They might miss the playoffs this year, but I am more thrilled now than I have been for the past 7 years. This team is building towards a new dynasty, not the overpriced, overage collection that they've put together since 2002.


;-D ;-D Agree completely. ;-D ;-D

I'm a Yankee fan who likes Cash. And while they might miss the playoffs this year, they also might not. I think Cash has done a good job of transition to a new way to manage the team while still giving them a shot to get to the playoffs. Yeah, with the Yankee money he has lots of advantages. But the way things were going, there was a much higher chance that they morphed into the most expensive laughing stock in baseball. I think the Yankees are going the right direction.
There are a few things with the New York Yankees that never change. That's pride, tradition, and most of all, we have the greatest fans in the world. -Derek Jeter, 9/21/08 -- last words from old Yankee Stadium
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:49 pm

neoforce wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:...
First of all, to blame Cashman solely for all the Yankees misfortune just shows how little you know about how the Yankees have been run for the past eight years. Cashman is not responsible for all of the terrible moves. ... It wasn't until Cashman re-signed his new deal and George faded out that he really gained control of the team, and it shows, as they have moved in a much more desirable direction, cutting costs and revamping the minor league system into one of the best in baseball.
...

To say this team is in bad shape is short-sighted. They might miss the playoffs this year, but I am more thrilled now than I have been for the past 7 years. This team is building towards a new dynasty, not the overpriced, overage collection that they've put together since 2002.


;-D ;-D Agree completely. ;-D ;-D

I'm a Yankee fan who likes Cash. And while they might miss the playoffs this year, they also might not. I think Cash has done a good job of transition to a new way to manage the team while still giving them a shot to get to the playoffs. Yeah, with the Yankee money he has lots of advantages. But the way things were going, there was a much higher chance that they morphed into the most expensive laughing stock in baseball. I think the Yankees are going the right direction.



Agreed, I'm enjoying the team a lot more since Cashman was given the reigns. ;-D
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:59 pm

So you enjoy the Kei Igawa and Latroy Hawkins signing?? Once again before the "youth movement" name 1 good move Cash has made. He was also the one who wanted Pavano
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:43 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:[Agreed, I'm enjoying the team a lot more since Cashman was given the reigns. ;-D

As a Sox fan, I'm afraid of how the Yankees would do if they matched up their money with some smart moves as they did this past winter.

Obviously, I'm hoping that Little George gets super pissed about watching Johan light it up while Hughes and Kennedy have growing pains so he fires Cashman and gives Sabathia 7 years and $150MM. Let the 2000's roll all over again!
0-3 to 4-3. Worst choke in the history of baseball. Enough said.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:50 pm

raygunpunx wrote:So you enjoy the Kei Igawa and Latroy Hawkins signing?? Once again before the "youth movement" name 1 good move Cash has made. He was also the one who wanted Pavano


Once again, you're assuming Cashman was in charge.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby neoforce » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:41 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:So you enjoy the Kei Igawa and Latroy Hawkins signing?? Once again before the "youth movement" name 1 good move Cash has made. He was also the one who wanted Pavano


Once again, you're assuming Cashman was in charge.


Remember, as I said, I like Cashman and the direction he has taken. But if I'm giving him credit since he has taken the reigns, I have to give him blame for two of these signings, Igawa and Hawkins. They happened after he was given the control.

So, when has a GM of any team been perfect? I agree, I didn't like those moves. But I understand them, and how they fit in.

Igawa was way over paid, but pitching was scarce so he took a chance. Hawkins is not good, but relief pitching is scarce as well and he signed him for only 1 year.

In my opinion, the good Cashman decisions have been much better than the bad ones.
There are a few things with the New York Yankees that never change. That's pride, tradition, and most of all, we have the greatest fans in the world. -Derek Jeter, 9/21/08 -- last words from old Yankee Stadium
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:51 pm

neoforce wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:So you enjoy the Kei Igawa and Latroy Hawkins signing?? Once again before the "youth movement" name 1 good move Cash has made. He was also the one who wanted Pavano


Once again, you're assuming Cashman was in charge.


Remember, as I said, I like Cashman and the direction he has taken. But if I'm giving him credit since he has taken the reigns, I have to give him blame for two of these signings, Igawa and Hawkins. They happened after he was given the control.

So, when has a GM of any team been perfect? I agree, I didn't like those moves. But I understand them, and how they fit in.

Igawa was way over paid, but pitching was scarce so he took a chance. Hawkins is not good, but relief pitching is scarce as well and he signed him for only 1 year.

In my opinion, the good Cashman decisions have been much better than the bad ones.


I have no problem assigning blame for the Igawa signing. That was a terrible move, and I called it from the moment they signed him. Hawkins? Who really cares? A 1-year deal for under $4 million? I have no problem with that. Obviously he sucks, but he wasn't brought in to be a set-up man. He's an innings-eater. Torre has ruined the arms of several MRs over the years. I'd rather give Hawkins a 1-year deal to eat innings than sign some other guy like Linebrink to a multi-year deal, for more money while his ratios decline.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:08 pm

For the third time can you please name me some moves that Cash has made that were good. I can think of one and that was a salary dump. The Abreu trade
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:28 pm

raygunpunx wrote:For the third time can you please name me some moves that Cash has made that were good. I can think of one and that was a salary dump. The Abreu trade


If you think that a GM should be judged on how many stars he brings in, then you're off-base.

Look at the minor league system. He's responsible for the wealth of young talent on this roster right now. The Yankees have one of the top minor leagues in baseball and they've gotten to that point in a relatively short time period.

Sometimes the best move is a non-move. The Yankees from 2002-2005 didn't make non-moves. They made moves simply for the sake of making a move. That's why they are stuck with a $200 million dollar payroll. They gave ridiculous contracts to guys like Farnsworth and Pavano. The Yankees are now in a position to cut $80 million in payroll after this season and use their money more wisely.

From all accounts I've read, Cashman was responsible for bringing in A-Rod in 2004. It was his idea, and his execution that got the deal done. As you said, he brought in Abreu. He picked up Gary Sheffield's option and dealt him away for arms. He was able to trade Jaret Wright away for Chris Britton. He's the reason that Hughes, Joba and Kennedy are in our rotation rather than guys like Barry Zito and Jason Schmidt. He was able to trade away Randy Johnson for Luis Vizcaino, Ross Ohlendorf and Alberto Gonzalez.

You want to go back to 1998-2001, before George flipped out and started making moves? He traded Wells for Clemens. He brought in David Justice. He signed Soriano. I can keep going if you want. I'm not saying Cashman is an elite GM or anything, I'm just saying that we don't know exactly what he is yet, because he's basically been George's puppet for the better part of 7 years. But I do like the direction that he's taking this team.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby neoforce » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:29 pm

raygunpunx wrote:For the third time can you please name me some moves that Cash has made that were good. I can think of one and that was a salary dump. The Abreu trade


Most people gave Cashman a lot more credit about Abreu than you are giving him. Yeah, he had an advantage because the Phils wanted him and his salary out. But still, he took the Phillies to the cleaners on that. Four low level prospects for someone who fits the Yankees perfectly.

How about last year where you could argue he saved the Yankees season by seeing a great way to use Joba in the Pen, NOT getting Gagne and pushing Joe to use Joba properly?

Sometimes the right move is to sit tight. And I was happy he did so this winter. Right now not making the Johan deal looks like a bad move. But I love the philosophy and am willing to wait a year or two before deciding if it was the right move.

But even if it wasn't, the idea behind it was. Work with youth, especially pitchers. Even the best current pitcher in the game is a huge risk if it costs three top prospects and a 6 year contract.
There are a few things with the New York Yankees that never change. That's pride, tradition, and most of all, we have the greatest fans in the world. -Derek Jeter, 9/21/08 -- last words from old Yankee Stadium
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