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Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

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Re: Hank Steinbrenner: Make Joba a Starter NOW

Postby Grounded Polo » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:17 pm

Russell James wrote:I guess everyone expects these young pitchers to come out and shut down opponents every game. It will probably take half of the season for Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain to find their rhythm. Chamberlain has been great out of the bullpen, but he has not started yet. It will be interesting to see how he does when hitters have seen him 3 times in a game. It is normal for these young guys to struggle and in about 3 years, if Hank can be patient, they will have a very good staff and a rebuilt farm system.

However, I don't think the Yankees will make the playoffs this year. Young pitchers take time to develop and Yankee fans and ownership are not known for their patience. If the Yankees fall out of the race early this year (which I think is unlikely), then I wouldn't be surprised to see Hank clean house after the season is over. Especially if the Red Sox win another Series.

So, just deal with it this year Yankee fans. If you make the playoffs, then consider yourself lucky. But Cashman has this team setup to be dominant in 3 years.


I'm also pretty sure that they will miss the playoffs. No one expects these guys to come out and shut everyone down. The problem is that when they pitch, they do not attack hitters at all. They are scared of a hitter making any sort of contact as if they don't trust their defense behind him to field some of the flyballs and grounders. All they are doing right now is either walking guys or trying for the strikeout. It's like Hughes and Kennedy don't realize that Pettite and Wang usually get like 6-7 runs of support every game, they're not like Matt Cain in San Francisco. Once they get over that, they'll be much more successful.

I definitely look forward to Joba in the rotation. He definitely hasn't looked at all afraid to attack hitters but then again, he usually strikes out at least 2 of his 3 outs. Joba won't be like Liriano in '06 but there's a small handful of guys who can approach Liriano's ability anyway so it's not a big concern.

hot4tx wrote:They could just start him on a rotation but severely limit his pitch count for a little bit. He'd be getting 3IP as a starter like the A's tried doing with everyone that one year back in the early 90s. No reason to waste good innings with him in the minors. Just have another SP scheduled to pick up in the 3rd/4th inning on days when he starts.


If Ian Kennedy keeps pitching like this, he'd probably benefit from some time in long relief. He really looks nothing like he did after getting called up last year, it's two completely different guys on the mound. One isn't scared to attack hitters and the other throws balls and might paint the occasional corner if he's lucky.
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Re: Hank Steinbrenner: Make Joba a Starter NOW

Postby The Jury » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:57 pm

Russell James wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Russell James wrote:Time will tell on the Johan trade. I wasn't to thrilled when the Red Sox refused to trade Buchholz for him. In 5 years Buchholz better be lights out with all the hype around this kid. The Red Sox and Yankees both have the resources to find another Buchholz and Hughes so I didn't understand the hesitation. Santana is going to be very good for another 5 or 6 years and the others are wild cards.

With that said,

I guess everyone expects these young pitchers to come out and shut down opponents every game. It will probably take half of the season for Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain to find their rhythm. Chamberlain has been great out of the bullpen, but he has not started yet. It will be interesting to see how he does when hitters have seen him 3 times in a game. It is normal for these young guys to struggle and in about 3 years, if Hank can be patient, they will have a very good staff and a rebuilt farm system.

However, I don't think the Yankees will make the playoffs this year. Young pitchers take time to develop and Yankee fans and ownership are not known for their patience. If the Yankees fall out of the race early this year (which I think is unlikely), then I wouldn't be surprised to see Hank clean house after the season is over. Especially if the Red Sox win another Series.

So, just deal with it this year Yankee fans. If you make the playoffs, then consider yourself lucky. But Cashman has this team setup to be dominant in 3 years.


The conversion from the bullpen to the rotation works very well. We've seen many successful and dominant starters thrive under this system: Santana, Liriano, Billingsley... Not saying that it will definitely work with Joba but it certainly doesn't hurt to try and find out.


Sure, I would agree with that. You could throw Dempster in there as well.

Joba has electric stuff, but I think he will have his share of lumps and I don't think he will be as dominant as Liriano or Santana. Plus the Twins were very careful with Liriano in '06. He didn't start until June or July so they did not rush him in.

I just don't know. I think Joba will be a great pitcher and the Yankees need starting pitching, but he is going to take his lumps...all young pitchers do. I do not believe that he will post the 9-0 record that Liriano posted in '06.


Dempster came up as a starter...
[quote:4fef447375="Geek"]The odds of the AL MVP coming from the American League are looking pretty good.[/quote]
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby Russell James » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:47 pm

Talking about this year.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:29 pm

This is just Hank running his mouth some more. If Hughes and Kennedy weren't pitching so badly, he'd have no problem with Joba in the bullpen. While I'm glad he's adamant about getting him into the rotation, he should calm down and stop acting like he's the smart one. They called Joba into the bullpen last year because they needed relief pitching, and he helped get them into the playoffs. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with starting him off in the bullpen this year to limit his innings.

And I think it's way too early to say that Yankees are in or out of the playoff picture. Their offense has been very beat up and/or cold thus far. Hughes obviously is still learning the ropes, but still has the stuff to make him an ace at the major league level. And quite frankly, I'm not sure that the Yankees' competition is much better off than them.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby northjersey78 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:23 am

Hank is the real idiot here.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby j24jags » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:18 pm

Hank wants Joba in the rotation, but Cashman strongly disagrees

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ ... 0702.story
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby neoforce » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:43 pm

I'm begining to give up trying to figure out what Hank wants, vs. what Hank says. From http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/200 ... es_hi.html it seems that Hank doesn't want it NOW but he agrees with his baseball people and the plan:

Steinbrenner, the Yankees co-chairperson, said yesterday he was "misunderstood" (but quoted accurately) in a New York Times report that intimated he was demanding Chamberlain's immediate conversion back to starting.

"My point is not to overrule anybody," Steinbrenner said. "The fact of the matter is, Joe (Girardi, the manager), Brian (Cashman, the GM) and everybody in the organization has always thought Chamberlain was a starter. And the goal has always been to get him back to that point.

<stuff removed>

Steinbrenner said there is a "specific plan" to convert Chamberlain back to starting but that it will take time because he has to be stretched out to longer outings.

"That's definitely what we want, not just me but everybody," Steinbrenner said. "It's definitely what I want, and in the end that's what matters. But I'm still going to go by what my best baseball people tell me."

There are a few things with the New York Yankees that never change. That's pride, tradition, and most of all, we have the greatest fans in the world. -Derek Jeter, 9/21/08 -- last words from old Yankee Stadium
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby raygunpunx » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:56 pm

Cash is the most overrated GM in baseball. Since he has been the GM has he ever brought in a reliever that has been effective other then Tom Gordon and Gordon couldn't pitch in the post season. Has he ever brought in a starting pitcher that has worked out? All people want to talk about is the youth movement which is fine and good but you also have to make good trades and sign good free agents to go along with that. Anyone who signs Pavano,Farnsworth and Igawa cannot be considered a top GM.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby AtlDynasty25 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:02 pm

raygunpunx wrote:Cash is the most overrated GM in baseball. Since he has been the GM has he ever brought in a reliever that has been effective other then Tom Gordon and Gordon couldn't pitch in the post season. Has he ever brought in a starting pitcher that has worked out? All people want to talk about is the youth movement which is fine and good but you also have to make good trades and sign good free agents to go along with that. Anyone who signs Pavano,Farnsworth and Igawa cannot be considered a top GM.


Bingo. Cashman is a joke. I hate the Yankees, but seriously, WHY did they not sign Carlos Beltran when he was on the market? They NEED him. Melky is a joke in CF. He does have a good arm, but his VORP offensively is negligible. And Hughes will be a nice pitcher when it's all said and done, but they should have traded for Santana. Money is not an issue for them. It does make me smile that this team can't do anything right though.
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Re: Hank wants Joba in the rotation NOW.. (Merged)

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:29 pm

AtlDynasty25 wrote:
raygunpunx wrote:Cash is the most overrated GM in baseball. Since he has been the GM has he ever brought in a reliever that has been effective other then Tom Gordon and Gordon couldn't pitch in the post season. Has he ever brought in a starting pitcher that has worked out? All people want to talk about is the youth movement which is fine and good but you also have to make good trades and sign good free agents to go along with that. Anyone who signs Pavano,Farnsworth and Igawa cannot be considered a top GM.


Bingo. Cashman is a joke. I hate the Yankees, but seriously, WHY did they not sign Carlos Beltran when he was on the market? They NEED him. Melky is a joke in CF. He does have a good arm, but his VORP offensively is negligible. And Hughes will be a nice pitcher when it's all said and done, but they should have traded for Santana. Money is not an issue for them. It does make me smile that this team can't do anything right though.


Right because the best offense in baseball NEEDED Carlos Beltran to......what? Don't make me laugh.

Can't do anything right, eh? I guess making the playoffs for 12 straight years, winning 6 pennants and 4 World Series is considered doing 'nothing right' nowadays? First of all, to blame Cashman solely for all the Yankees misfortune just shows how little you know about how the Yankees have been run for the past eight years. Cashman is not responsible for all of the terrible moves. George Steinbrenner, with imbecile aids like Bill Emslie and Billy Connors ran the show after the Yankees lost in 2001. I'm not giving Cashman a free pass, but to say that he's solely responsible for all of the terrible moves the Yankees have made is simply inaccurate. It wasn't until Cashman re-signed his new deal and George faded out that he really gained control of the team, and it shows, as they have moved in a much more desirable direction, cutting costs and revamping the minor league system into one of the best in baseball.

I'm as hard on the Yankees stupidity as anyone here, but let's get realistic. The team has had more success over the past decade than any other team in the game. Have they been efficiently run over the past 6 or 7 years? No. But to say that they "can't do anything right" is laughable.

The Yankees will cut roughly $80 million in payroll after this year. They will then have a core offense built around Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Robinson Cano, Hideki Matsui, Jorge Posada, Johnny Damon and Melky Cabrera. They have Jose Tabata and Austin Jackson waiting in the wings. They have a SP nucleus of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Chien-Ming Wang and Ian Kennedy. They have many more good arms in the minors that have potential to fill out the bullpen with Rivera.

To say this team is in bad shape is short-sighted. They might miss the playoffs this year, but I am more thrilled now than I have been for the past 7 years. This team is building towards a new dynasty, not the overpriced, overage collection that they've put together since 2002.
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