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Big Hurt Released

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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby Snakes Gould » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:37 pm

stevethumb wrote:frank thomas----hall of famer ??


first ballot, without a doubt.
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby RC » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:38 pm

To follow up...

Overbay was just shown on a local Sports-cast as saying some of the guys were frusterated with what Frank was unable to contribute to the team and that he had come into camp this year 'changed'.

Surprised to hear that obviously, but Frank it's awful to think that Frank sabotaged his way out of town.

Maybe J.P.'s hands were tied and he did the right thing...?
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby AussieDodger » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:36 am

It's surprising, because I would have thought Thomas would have gotten them something if they tried to trade him.
Bavasi seems like a bit of a dimwit, so Ricciardi should have fancied his chances getting something interesting in return.
Definitely a bad move if they didn't try and trade him.
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby jfg » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:47 am

Snakes Gould wrote:
stevethumb wrote:frank thomas----hall of famer ??


first ballot, without a doubt.


I think it's going to be close, but he'll probably get in on the first ballot. Hall of famer? Is that even a question?
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby bdrotoronto » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:29 am

AussieDodger wrote:Definitely a bad move if they didn't try and trade him.

Just to clarify, Thomas was basically untradable because of the clause in his contract that would have guaranteed him $10 million next year if he gets 376 ABs this year (i.e. easy for anyone playing every day). That clause would have come with him to any team acquiring him in a trade, and no team with a clue would even think of offering Thomas $10M as a free agent next year, unless John Ferguson Jr. gets involved in baseball or something.
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:05 pm

I do believe that this was an admission by JP that he made a mistake. Throw this on the heap of other mistakes. I don't think that anyone can argue now that JP is doing a good job.

Brad Fullmer for Brian Cooper
Raul Mondesi for Scott Wiggins
Felipe Lopex for Jason Arnold
Shanon Stewart for Bobby Kielty
Mark Hendrickson for Jason Speier
Josh Phelps for Eric Crozier
Chad Gaudin for Dustin Majewski
Miguel Batsista and Orlando Hudson for Troy Glaus
then Glaus for Rolen

Then the free agents
Cory Koskie for $17M
Burnett
Frank Thomas

The jury is still out on Burnett, BJ Ryan and Rolen but he has been our GM since 2001 and the failures overwhelm the successes and our minor league teams are doing poorly. I think that it is time to pull the plug on Riccardi and bring in somebody with a good track record with a plan.
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby Yoda » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:16 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:I do believe that this was an admission by JP that he made a mistake. Throw this on the heap of other mistakes. I don't think that anyone can argue now that JP is doing a good job.

Brad Fullmer for Brian Cooper
Raul Mondesi for Scott Wiggins
Felipe Lopex for Jason Arnold
Shanon Stewart for Bobby Kielty
Mark Hendrickson for Jason Speier
Josh Phelps for Eric Crozier
Chad Gaudin for Dustin Majewski
Miguel Batsista and Orlando Hudson for Troy Glaus
then Glaus for Rolen

Then the free agents
Cory Koskie for $17M
Burnett
Frank Thomas

The jury is still out on Burnett, BJ Ryan and Rolen but he has been our GM since 2001 and the failures overwhelm the successes and our minor league teams are doing poorly. I think that it is time to pull the plug on Riccardi and bring in somebody with a good track record with a plan.


You forgot BJ.
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby bdrotoronto » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:39 pm

Yoda wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I do believe that this was an admission by JP that he made a mistake. Throw this on the heap of other mistakes. I don't think that anyone can argue now that JP is doing a good job.

Brad Fullmer for Brian Cooper
Raul Mondesi for Scott Wiggins
Felipe Lopex for Jason Arnold
Shanon Stewart for Bobby Kielty
Mark Hendrickson for Jason Speier
Josh Phelps for Eric Crozier
Chad Gaudin for Dustin Majewski
Miguel Batsista and Orlando Hudson for Troy Glaus
then Glaus for Rolen

Then the free agents
Cory Koskie for $17M
Burnett
Frank Thomas

The jury is still out on Burnett, BJ Ryan and Rolen but he has been our GM since 2001 and the failures overwhelm the successes and our minor league teams are doing poorly. I think that it is time to pull the plug on Riccardi and bring in somebody with a good track record with a plan.


You forgot BJ.

I think he was only including the ones who have been overwhelming busts. :-b Could've added the choice of Shannon Stewart over Reed Johnson this year if you want to include more.

In the end, Mookie's conclusion (i.e. JP's whole tenure has been a failure and he has no clue how to manage this organization) is sound, I've been saying the same thing since at least 2005.

NB: the Star today ranked their 5 worst FA signings in Jays history.. three of them from the JP era.. :-t http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Baseball/article/416532
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby kimchi_chigae » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:33 pm

I fail to understand how releasing Frank Thomas improves the team. Using Rod Barajas as a DH is hardly an improvement. Instead of telling Thomas that he's going to be benched for an undetermined amount of time and therefore making Thomas raise questions about the legitimacy of move through the media, the Jays could have given him a day off or two, maybe platoon him with Matt Stairs and not release the guy this early in the season. Thomas got off to a slow start last season, he also got off to a slow start in 06, and still put up good numbers. I don't doubt Frank Thomas is done, but not giving him a chance to turn his season around is not the best move IMO. If the organization is worried about winning now, $10M for Thomas next year, shouldn't be an issue. Instead of paying him $10M next year, they are paying him $6.5M this year for him not to play.

Using Matt Stairs as the full-time DH isn't improving the offense because of the ridiculous situation Ricciardi has created in the LF. Shannon Stewart can't play everyday because his body just won't hold up anymore, not to mention he isn't even an ideal platoon player because he hits righties and lefties equally. Because Stewart can't play everyday and Stairs is DH'ing, the Jays have to use Scutaro and Inglett in the LF, which is far from ideal. Now, they could call up Adam Lind and have him platoon with Stewart, but that has nothing to do with releasing Thomas. Frank could still platoon with Stairs at DH and if they felt they should have give Stairs more ABs, play him at 1B instead of Lyle Overbay every once in a while, Overbay isn't doing much either.

Releasing Thomas means more playing time for guys like Marco Scutaro and Joe Inglett until Adam Lind gets called up, he is currently nursing a sore neck in Syracuse. Suddenly the Jays offense is looking a lot weaker than in the beginning of the season, which is pretty bad considering the lineup wasn't very strong to begin with.
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Re: Big Hurt Released

Postby cards05 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:31 pm

The whole "we can't wait for him to break out of his slump" thing is absurd. If I'm a Jays fan, I'm hoping this is just another lie from management. Because, if they are that clueless about statistical sample sizes, things are going to get worse quick. This is especially true (sample sizes) when you consider Frank had a worse start in 2006 and went on to get MVP votes with his 36 homeruns. He also started as bad last year. Also, this "slump" lasted all of 10 days. Two weeks ago, he was hitting grand slams with a +.500 slugging percentage.
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