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Point based HTH leagues

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Point based HTH leagues

Postby Zen Boy » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:21 pm

What are people's opinions on this? I play in one every year but I am of the opinion that it's inferior to roto HTH. One of my biggest criticisms is that HRs always end up being king for hitters, and non-power hitting sparkplug types get grossly undervalued. I also don't like how pitchers always end up scoring a lot more than hitters.

I think my league is point based because the guys who started it are fantasy football fanatics, where point based HTH is the only way to do it, but I feel that format doesn't work as well in baseball.
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Postby Fumbler » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:35 pm

I'm not going to argue which one is better or worse (play which one you have more fun doing).

I would like to correct you on the pitchers outscoring the hitters.

Taking last year's stats, 26 hitters scored over 600 points. Only 15 pitchers scored over 600 points.

5 hitters scored over 700 points compared with only 3 pitchers.

It seems like it's just assumed that pitchers usually do better in points leauges just because the top 1 or 2 guys are pitchers.

Yes, Gagne was the top point-getter last year...but that was also a lifetime season never blowing a save opportunity.

It is kind of skewed to the top 1-3 pitchers from year to year but, overall, hitters routinely outscore pitchers down the line.
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Postby Zen Boy » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:45 pm

Fumbler wrote:
I would like to correct you on the pitchers outscoring the hitters.

Taking last year's stats, 26 hitters scored over 600 points. Only 15 pitchers scored over 600 points.


What scoring system is this? Can you give me a link or cut and paste it onto here, please? Sounds like it might be a better scoring system than the one we use.

In my experience, the overall player rankings are never as accurate in point based as in roto, but maybe that's not necessarily the case.
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Postby Fumbler » Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:03 pm

Our league has been using what i guess is the basic or standard form of points scoring. We play H2H on Sportsline.

The point system is as follows:

Single = 1 point
Double = 2 points
Triple = 3 point
Home Run = 4 points
Run Scored = 1 point
RBI = 1 point
Stolen Base = 2 points
Walk = 1 point

Win = 10 points
Save = 10 points
K's = 1 point
Inning Pitched = 2 points
Complete Game = 5 points
Run Allowed = -1 point
Hit Given Up = -.5 points
Walk Given Up = -.5 points


Here's a list of what some players scored during the 2002 season:

Randy Johnson - 922
Curt Schilling - 869
Eric Gagne - 785
John Smoltz - 754
Billy Koch - 732
Pedro Martinez - 693
Barry Zito - 666
Robb Nen - 657
Roy Oswalt - 639
Byung-Hyun Kim - 635
Jose Mesa - 627
Bartolo Colon - 626
Roy Halladay - 611
Derek Lowe - 609
Eddie Guardado - 607

Barry Bonds - 774
Alex Rodriguez - 771
Vladimir Guerrero - 751
Alfonso Soriano - 730
Jason Giambi - 705
Lance Berkman - 695
Carlos Beltran - 683
Brian Giles - 679
Magglio Ordonez - 677
Jim Thome - 673
Sammy Sosa - 670
Shawn Green - 663
Albert Pujols - 661
Bobby Abreu - 654
Todd Helton - 649
Miguel Tejada - 638
Rafael Palmeiro - 630
Jeff Kent - 628
Pat Burrell - 625
Derek Jeter - 614
Jeff Bagwell - 613
Nomar Garciaparra - 613
Chipper Jones - 609
Derek Lee - 609
Bernie Williams - 608
Carlos Delgado - 605
Garret Anderson - 602


Here's a list of what some players scored during the 2003 season:

Eric Gagne - 831
Roy Halladay - 747
Keith Foulke - 721
Mark Prior - 679
Esteban Loaiza - 673
Billy Wagner - 671
Jason Schmidt - 663
Kerry Wood - 645
Javier Vasquez - 631
John Smoltz - 614
Tim Hudson - 604
Mariano Rivera - 603
Mike Mussina - 602
Livan Hernandez - 601
Bartolo Colon - 600

Albert Pujols - 754
Alex Rodriguez - 742
Gary Sheffield - 736
Todd Helton - 732
Carlos Delgado - 728
Jim Thome - 688
Alfonso Soriano - 683
Bret Boone - 668
Manny Ramirez - 666
Barry Bonds - 665
Vernon Wells - 665
Richie Sexson - 664
Nomar Garciaparra - 658
Preston Wilson - 643
Jeff Bagwell - 642
Jason Giambi - 640
Carlos Beltran - 630
Bobby Abreu - 625
Aubrey Huff - 616
Scott Rolen - 614
Edgar Renteria - 612
Luis Gonzalez - 611
Frank Thomas - 611
Magglio Ordonez - 607
Lance Berkman - 606
Carlos Lee - 601


It's by no means a perfect league. Home run hitters do very well, but then again Edgar Renteria cracked the 600 point mark w/o that many HR's.

The thing i don't like about it is the closers seem to dominate a bit too much for my liking. The rest of my friends/league mates want to keep it the way it is, but i'm trying to tweak some stuff here and there as we go (this is only our 3rd year doing this league).

Hope this helps. :-)
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Re: Point based HTH leagues

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:19 pm

Zen Boy wrote:What are people's opinions on this? I play in one every year but I am of the opinion that it's inferior to roto HTH. One of my biggest criticisms is that HRs always end up being king for hitters, and non-power hitting sparkplug types get grossly undervalued. I also don't like how pitchers always end up scoring a lot more than hitters.

I think my league is point based because the guys who started it are fantasy football fanatics, where point based HTH is the only way to do it, but I feel that format doesn't work as well in baseball.


I feel your pain. Just say no to point based leagues.
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Postby beezer » Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:22 pm

After 9 years of roto and 5x5 H2H, we are mixing it up this year and using H2H points. The points are almost exactly the same as Fumbler's league except we count Holds. I've done another H2H points league and thought it was cool. It may not be as accurate as roto, but it is more fun. IMO.
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