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CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby nolanwood » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:07 am

mkultra wrote:Hill has minimal upside.



:-? :-S

I'd like to see this explanation...
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby StlSluggers » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:35 am

Cobra_Kai wrote:It's part mental, part physical.

I agree with the first, but not the last part. Everything that anyone can measure indicates that his velocity is there. I think he is having problems with the pressure. It started with the playoffs, and it's carried over into the regular season.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby Field » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:54 am

nolanwood wrote:
mkultra wrote:Hill has minimal upside.



:-? :-S

I'd like to see this explanation...


He probably meant for the 2008 season, which is valid. Overall, he has a solid #2 ceiling, not quite up to CC's level though.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby The Cow » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:33 am

rotoquest wrote:
...The real culprit here is lack of command, specifically with his fastball. Sabathia only walked 37 batters in 241.3 innings in 2007 but has already walked 14 in just 18 innings. That 241.3 innings doesn't count the extra 15.3 innings he threw in post season play which represents a large increase in his workload over previous years (210 innings was his previous high). Could Sabathia be worn down? Is there something mechanically wrong?


This a part of an article on CC over at rotoauthority. The article goes on to examine a different release point for CC in 2008 versus 2007 with a scatter plot. For those interested you'll find it right on the front page at
http://www.rotoauthority.com/


Interesting because Carmona also was had a lower release point until his last start. Carmona made the adjustment and pitched much better. Perhaps C.C. will do the same.

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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby Field » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:41 am

The Cow wrote:
rotoquest wrote:
...The real culprit here is lack of command, specifically with his fastball. Sabathia only walked 37 batters in 241.3 innings in 2007 but has already walked 14 in just 18 innings. That 241.3 innings doesn't count the extra 15.3 innings he threw in post season play which represents a large increase in his workload over previous years (210 innings was his previous high). Could Sabathia be worn down? Is there something mechanically wrong?


This a part of an article on CC over at rotoauthority. The article goes on to examine a different release point for CC in 2008 versus 2007 with a scatter plot. For those interested you'll find it right on the front page at
http://www.rotoauthority.com/


Interesting because Carmona also was had a lower release point until his last start. Carmona made the adjustment and pitched much better. Perhaps C.C. will do the same.

The Cow


Sometimes a lower release point is a result of an underlying shoulder problem..... It doesn't hold for every instance obviously, but still not a good sign.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby The Cow » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:48 am

It could be a shoulder, but if I were C.C. and I had a shoulder problem I would have taken the Tribe's 80 mil and run, rather than risk injury. So since C.C. did not take the 80 mil that tells me he thought he was healthy and could pitch like last year and get 120 mil or so. C.C,'s troubles began in the playoffs so if he were hurt he should have taken the money. I don't think C.C. is dumb enough to pass on 80 mil while hurt, nor do I think the Tribe would offer 80 mil to an injured pitcher. But perhaps C.C. got injured sometime between the end of Spring Training and now, since the offer was out there during Spring Training. Mechanics, tipping pitches and mental are the 3 reasons I give for C.C.'s failure.

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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby mkultra » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:40 pm

Field wrote:
nolanwood wrote:
mkultra wrote:Hill has minimal upside.



:-? :-S

I'd like to see this explanation...


He probably meant for the 2008 season, which is valid. Overall, he has a solid #2 ceiling, not quite up to CC's level though.


Correct ;-D

I've posted my thoughts on Hill on '08 here.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby Bloody Sox » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:46 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
Cobra_Kai wrote:It's part mental, part physical.

I agree with the first, but not the last part. Everything that anyone can measure indicates that his velocity is there. I think he is having problems with the pressure. It started with the playoffs, and it's carried over into the regular season.

Speed of pitches is not the only indicator of physical health. It is quite possible for a pitcher who is fighting an arm injury (depending on location and severity) to not lose any velocity and yet not be able to locate or get enough movement on their pitches.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby rotoquest » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:19 pm

Quote by CC in the Cleveland Plain Dealer 4/22
"I'm always my worst critic," said Sabathia, who hasn't made it out of the sixth inning in any of his appearances. "It's frustrating that I've pitched four games and not even given my team a chance in any of them. That's unacceptable."

Facing the Royals (9-10) hasn't been a problem for Sabathia, however. He is 13-8 with a 3.38 ERA in 28 meetings against them.
http://cleveland.stats.com/mlb/preview.asp?g=280422107


Tonite's the night he turns things around.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby Bwanna » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:31 pm

I'm not starting him until I see him reverse his current trend, and I'll live with the consequences.
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