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CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby stumpak » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:52 pm

The print edition of Sporting News this week had a blurb asserting that Sabathia is tipping his pitches. This would explain a lot if accurate.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby charliebrown2 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:00 pm

i traded rich hill for CC....i dont know what to think of it.... :-S
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby jfg » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:52 pm

stumpak wrote:The print edition of Sporting News this week had a blurb asserting that Sabathia is tipping his pitches. This would explain a lot if accurate.


That could have some effect on walks but I don't think it would have as much effect as we've seen.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby rotoquest » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:25 pm

jfg wrote:
stumpak wrote:The print edition of Sporting News this week had a blurb asserting that Sabathia is tipping his pitches. This would explain a lot if accurate.


That could have some effect on walks but I don't think it would have as much effect as we've seen.


It might have more effect than you think. If a right handed hitter knows he is getting a fastball, and with CC admitting he hasn't been pitching inside enough on right handers catching too much of the plate, then this could explain much of his demise. Right handed hitters have hit 9 for the last 20 against CC. Not good.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby stumpak » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:16 pm

See Javier Vazquez a few years ago with Arizona for how tipping pitches can turn an excellent pitcher into an abysmal one.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby JTWood » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:04 am

stumpak wrote:The print edition of Sporting News this week had a blurb asserting that Sabathia is tipping his pitches. This would explain a lot if accurate.

Doesn't explain his walks.
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby mkultra » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:27 am

charliebrown2 wrote:i traded rich hill for CC....i dont know what to think of it.... :-S


That's a fantastic deal for you, IMO. Hill has minimal upside.

JTWood wrote:
stumpak wrote:The print edition of Sporting News this week had a blurb asserting that Sabathia is tipping his pitches. This would explain a lot if accurate.

Doesn't explain his walks.


Not directly, but you can plausibly connect the dots- you're tipping pitches, batters are clobbering anything near the zone, so you get less confident throwing strikes.

I predict CC gets sent down for a few weeks, and comes back as his old self. B-)
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby rotoquest » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:41 am

...The real culprit here is lack of command, specifically with his fastball. Sabathia only walked 37 batters in 241.3 innings in 2007 but has already walked 14 in just 18 innings. That 241.3 innings doesn't count the extra 15.3 innings he threw in post season play which represents a large increase in his workload over previous years (210 innings was his previous high). Could Sabathia be worn down? Is there something mechanically wrong?


This a part of an article on CC over at rotoauthority. The article goes on to examine a different release point for CC in 2008 versus 2007 with a scatter plot. For those interested you'll find it right on the front page at
http://www.rotoauthority.com/
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby JTWood » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:05 am

How in the hell do they get that data?!?

8-o 8-o 8-o
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Re: CC Sabathia: What's Gone Wrong?

Postby Cobra_Kai » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:58 am

What's wrong with CC Sabathia? It's very easy:

241 IP in 2007 + Rocking the scales at 298 lbs + Hightened expectations (see: Cleveland's world series hopes, Cy Young fallout) = Down year.

It's not rocket science; he's overweight, he threw a ton of innings last year, and there was a ton of hype and pressure on him this year due to his Cy Young last year, and the general consensus that Cleveland had a real shot this year. It's part mental, part physical. I avoided him this year specifically due to all that.
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