Nomarrrrrrrrrr wrote:Apparently you guys, and especially you Met fans, don't watch too many Met games. Reyes is a great distraction when he is on base and when he isn't on base the Mets offense is lackluster. He energizes the team with his kid like antics
Pretty sure firejoemorgan would have a field day if someone tried to use 'kid-like antics' as an argument for value to a team.
Nomarrrrrrrrrr wrote:So you can say Rollins is much better than Reyes but as a leadoff hitter he isn't much better if at all. The extra homeruns don't mean that much from the leadoff spot and he scores so many runs because he has a better lineup behind him.
1. The extra homeruns don't mean AS much. But they mean something. Rollins outhomered Reyes by 28 last season. What a coincidence, he also outscored Reyes by 20 runs! Oh, and about 40 more RBIs! Where did all those extra counting stats come from? Oh right, b/c a home run is also a run and an RBI.
2. Rollins's lineup is better? Um, Mets have Carlos Beltran and reigning MVP David Wright along w/ declining/inconsistent slugger Delgados, it's not like Dave Concepcion is hitting 3rd for them. Phillies have Chase Utley, 2006 MVP Ryan Howard, declining/inconsistent slugger Pat Burrell. Say what you will, it's not so clear who has the better lineup on any given day behind him.
I will admit you have a very valid argument w/ age. Rollins's stats will level off or decline slightly, while Reyes will likely improve to the point where he hits 25 and steals 60 to be MVP/fantasy MVP w/in the next 3 years.
Wright won an MVP?
In response to #1, sure a hr is a run and an rbi but in the real world a leadoff hr is no better than a double that turns into a run. I wasn't talking about fantasy when I said the extra hr's don't count for much. I even said Rollins is better fantasy-wise. When you talk about the value to the team you usually use the runs that a player is involved in (which is Runs + RBI - HR...you subtract HR because it is both a run and rbi but really only one run on the scoreboard). Last year Rollins had a stellar year and he was involved in 203 runs to Reyes' 164. But the prior year it was 185 to 184 and Reyes played in fewer games.
In response to #2, the Phillies have a much better lineup. The 2nd hitter, no matter who it is, is better for Philly. I believe it was mostly Iguchi and Victorino with some Utley sprinkled in last year while the Mets had LoDuca, Castillo and whoever else they plugged in there. In the 3rd spot the Phillies usually had Utley but also Howard and Burrell some. The Mets have had Wright or Beltran 3rd so the edge goes to the Mets there. Hitting 4th the Phillies usually had Howard and sometimes Burrell. The Mets had crappy old Delgado for most of 2006 and a split between Delgado, Wright and Beltran last year. So the Phillies have certainly had a better 2-3-4 hitting behind Rollins over the last 2 years.