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Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:16 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Politics should NOT be tied with sports.

Unfortunately, we're not dealing with "shoulds" here. Politics are intrinsically knotted with sports, especially the Olympics.

You may not be dealing with "shoulds," but I am.

I reject the notion that what is going on between China and Tibet is stupid and I reject the notion that boycotting the games in China would be an empty gesture, so I really don't know how I can answer your question other than to say that I'd still feel better than the people who have been killed in Tibet.

No Art, you misinterpreted what I said. Boycotts, in all shapes and forms, are stupid and completely WORTHLESS. The China/Tibet situatio, on the other hand, is not.

The US rightfully speaks and acts out against humans rights violations all over the world, some would say too much, others, not enough. This is a great opportunity to put our money where our mouth is, to say to China--and the world--we know what you're doing, and until you knock it off, we're not going to have anything to do with you. Unfortunately, there's too much money involved for anyone to actually take a principled stand.

The US has been guilty of their own human rights violations throughout the world, and many would say that their war in Iraq is totally unjustified. How would we like it if a bunch of countries decided to boycott an American games for that reason?

A boycott might seem to serve some kind of purpose, but it does absolutely nothing other than make a few politicians look good. China will not stop doing what they do just because a few countries don't go to their Olympics. The Soviet Union certainly didn't.
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:18 pm

knapplc wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Politics should NOT be tied with sports.

How would you feel if the thing you wanted your entire life was taken away for you for something so stupid? The empty gesture is in the boycott.

The last time the US led a boycott was because of Russia invading Afganistan....did that achieve anything at all? No. And where have we been for the past 7 years? Afganistan. I hate politics.

The real world is a bugger, isn't it? :-D

You and I don't get to make that call. This is the realm of governments, and what you or I think about this is irrelevant.

Of course, but that doesn't prevent me from carrying a strong opinion on this matter.
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby knapplc » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:33 pm

mweir145 wrote:
knapplc wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Politics should NOT be tied with sports.

How would you feel if the thing you wanted your entire life was taken away for you for something so stupid? The empty gesture is in the boycott.

The last time the US led a boycott was because of Russia invading Afganistan....did that achieve anything at all? No. And where have we been for the past 7 years? Afganistan. I hate politics.

The real world is a bugger, isn't it? :-D

You and I don't get to make that call. This is the realm of governments, and what you or I think about this is irrelevant.

Of course, but that doesn't prevent me from carrying a strong opinion on this matter.

Just wait another 20 years when you're old and cynical like me, tired of gnashing your teeth at the egregious wrongs we see every day but have no ability to stop, being the little guy. We're the grist in the mill, the grease in the cogs.

It sucks. :-t
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby Tavish » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:43 pm

mweir wrote:No Art, you misinterpreted what I said. Boycotts, in all shapes and forms, are stupid and completely WORTHLESS. The China/Tibet situatio, on the other hand, is not.

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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:47 pm

mweir145 wrote:Boycotts, in all shapes and forms, are stupid and completely WORTHLESS.

Whether they are stupid or not is a matter of opinion, I suppose. But to say that all boycotts are worthless is patently false. There have been numerous successful boycotts throughout history that played huge roles in bringing about major changes. Whether or not a boycott of the Olympics would have its desired affect (whatever that may be), is another story. I think it would.


mweir145 wrote:The US has been guilty of their own human rights violations throughout the world, and many would say that their war in Iraq is totally unjustified. How would we like it if a bunch of countries decided to boycott an American games for that reason?

US games have been boycotted, and if it happend again and countries had legitimate reasons, I would most likely support it.

I guess I don't place as much importance on seeing which county can run and swim fastest.
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby knapplc » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:50 pm

Tavish wrote:
mweir wrote:No Art, you misinterpreted what I said. Boycotts, in all shapes and forms, are stupid and completely WORTHLESS. The China/Tibet situatio, on the other hand, is not.

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Nice. :-b
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:57 pm

knapplc wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
knapplc wrote:The real world is a bugger, isn't it? :-D

You and I don't get to make that call. This is the realm of governments, and what you or I think about this is irrelevant.

Of course, but that doesn't prevent me from carrying a strong opinion on this matter.

Just wait another 20 years when you're old and cynical like me, tired of gnashing your teeth at the egregious wrongs we see every day but have no ability to stop, being the little guy. We're the grist in the mill, the grease in the cogs.

It sucks. :-t

They told me I was special when I was a kid, and had the ability to do anything I set my mind to. Are you saying they all lied? :-b
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:59 pm

Tavish wrote:
mweir wrote:No Art, you misinterpreted what I said. Boycotts, in all shapes and forms, are stupid and completely WORTHLESS. The China/Tibet situatio, on the other hand, is not.

Rosa Parks says hello.

My bad, I wasn't being specific enough. I should have said sports-related.
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:03 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:Whether they are stupid or not is a matter of opinion, I suppose. But to say that all boycotts are worthless is patently false. There have been numerous successful boycotts throughout history that played huge roles in bringing about major changes. Whether or not a boycott of the Olympics would have its desired affect (whatever that may be), is another story. I think it would.

Why do you think it would, Art? If the Chinese or some other country decided to boycott our Olympics, do you think it would change any of our governments policies AT all? I don't think so...so why would it be different for another super power like the Chinese?

mweir145 wrote:I guess I don't place as much importance on seeing which county can run and swim fastest.

Well I don't either, I just don't like ruining dreams and wrecking lives for a pointless exercise of politics.
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Re: Partial Boycott of the Olympics ? Olympic Protests?

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:49 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Whether they are stupid or not is a matter of opinion, I suppose. But to say that all boycotts are worthless is patently false. There have been numerous successful boycotts throughout history that played huge roles in bringing about major changes. Whether or not a boycott of the Olympics would have its desired affect (whatever that may be), is another story. I think it would.

Why do you think it would, Art? If the Chinese or some other country decided to boycott our Olympics, do you think it would change any of our governments policies AT all? I don't think so...so why would it be different for another super power like the Chinese?

I don't think that a boycott of the Olympics will cause China to go "You're right, we're wrong. Sorry, we'll change." I do think, however, that it could be a big first step and do a lot to bring about awareness, which will lead to more and more people calling for change and potentially more and more boycotts and sanctions until China's hand is forced. Sports boycotts actually played a large role in the early actions to end apartheid, and they'be been successful in other situations as well. The US threatening to boycott the Seoul games had an impact on bringing democracy to South Korea. How much of an impact is up for debate.

Using just what's going on today as an example: without these protests we wouldn't have 1/10 of the information, coverage, and awareness of what's going on in Tibet right now. It's been discussed in the news more in the last week than in the previous year. I'd like to see the same happen with China's other human rights violations and I truly believe that a large-scale boycott of these Olympics could be what triggers that. Unfortunately, it won't happen. And not because of some romantic notion of the purity of sports. There are billions of dollars at stake, and unless the major corporate sponsors force the hands of the nations they are sponsoring, nothing will happen.
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