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Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

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Trade Veto: Only Collusion or unbalanced trades too?

-Veto should be used only for obvious/provable instances of collusion...pay your nickel and take your lumps!!!
29
71%
-Veto should be used to stop unbalanced trades...it's the commish's job to help keep the teams balanced!!!
12
29%
 
Total votes : 41

Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby GabbyJay » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:35 am

There was a funny situation in my dynasty last week. The owner of one of the weaker teams in the league traded Jonathon Papelbon for Brandon Wood. A lot of owners were upset, and baffled because many had made what they regarded as much better offers for Paps. What happened was this guy thought he was getting Brandon WEBB. Some wanted to veto the deal (including the guy who made it!) My view was that he was at the mercy of the other owner, who ultimately agreed to swap the players back after getting a draft pick as compensation.
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby Matthias » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:03 am

mak1277 wrote:No fantasy baseball commissioner should EVER believe he is so smart that he can unilaterally veto trades because the THINKS they are not balanced. That's ridiculous.

Outside of collusion, every team owner has the right to run his team any way he wants. Who the heck are you (or I) to say he can't make a "bad" trade? I'm all for educating owners when they make a bad trade...sending a quick e-mail to let them know what they did...but I wouldn't dare tell them they can't make a trade because I think it's imbalanced.

I've seen enough "bad" trades turn out to be good trades that it's simply not worth trying to make this determination.

There's also enough unpredictable things that laying down an iron-clad rule is foolish.

Trades that people have asked for guidance here just on this page (no collusion known of):
Joba for Crawford (redraft): viewtopic.php?t=334727
Beltran for Longoria/Bonderman (redraft): viewtopic.php?t=326001
Manny for Cueto (keeper): viewtopic.php?t=334447
Hafner for Longoria/Bruce, then drops Longoria (same as last one)

All of these are ridiculous trades that ruin, "your" team in the context of, "my" league. Not vetoing because you can't find collusion protects individual owners. Vetoing trades that are just insane protect the entire league against every silly or spiteful idea that owners get in their head.
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby CruiseJD » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:14 pm

mak1277 wrote:No fantasy baseball commissioner should EVER believe he is so smart that he can unilaterally veto trades because the THINKS they are not balanced. That's ridiculous.

Outside of collusion, every team owner has the right to run his team any way he wants. Who the heck are you (or I) to say he can't make a "bad" trade? I'm all for educating owners when they make a bad trade...sending a quick e-mail to let them know what they did...but I wouldn't dare tell them they can't make a trade because I think it's imbalanced.

I've seen enough "bad" trades turn out to be good trades that it's simply not worth trying to make this determination.


Be careful with the generalities. My league unanimously voted to give me sole discretion over approval of trades. If I abuse that discretion, I'm sure the league will have no problem taking that authority away.

As for "Outside of collusion" . . . please, tell me, without direct evidence, how do you determine collusion? By comparing the value of players? Sounds similar to examining for a "bad trade" or "imbalanced" to me. For example, A-Rod for K-Rod, is that collusion? How would you know?
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby bongovt » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:53 pm

when I created this thing...by collusion, I meant some sort of dirty dealing between owners basically....ie: working together to sink a team while building another, one owner secretly operating two teams, bribery, other cheating unspecified, etc...the kind of shenanigans that dont generally provide for fairness and good citizenship in a league...thanks so much to everyone who has responded-Im enjoying the opinions!!!
"If you don't like my fire, then don't come around...'cuz I'm gonna burn one down...yes I'm gonna burn one down!"--Ben Harper
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby pokerplaya » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:38 pm

Only for collusion. We are all able to make our own choices, don't insult the intelligence of someone else by telling him he can't run his team the way he deems fit. If you don't like the competition level, play with better competition.
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:17 am

When someone trades Joba for Crawford in a redraft, they've gone ahead and insulted their own intelligence.
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby noseeum » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:32 am

Matthias wrote:When someone trades Joba for Crawford in a redraft, they've gone ahead and insulted their own intelligence.


Unless it's a league that counts holds and doesn't count stolen bases and the guy who had Crawford also had 3 other stud OFs.

Seriously, this is probably one of the most extreme examples I've seen of a ridiculous trade, and I'd still let it through. The guy who took Joba would be ridiculed unceasingly for days and told it was about the dumbest trade ever. The guy who got Crawford will not be trusted to make fair offers for a very long time and will sit watching as other people make deals around him and he's left doing nothing.

And once Joba owner finally realized that, seeing Crawford owner near the top of the standings and him near the bottom, he'd say "That guy ripped me off. I'll be wary of him next time," as well as, "Geez, I look like an idiot. I better brush up on my game here," and the league will be better off for it. Much better off than having a Civil War and pissed off owners who got their trade vetoed.

In a re-draft league, though, I'd make these guys state their cases. They'd have to prove to me this wasn't somehow collusion. Anonymous league? No way this goes through, but I don't play anonymous leagues for this reason.
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby auclairkeithbc » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:14 pm

i think you need to apply a fairly simple standard in most leagues. that is this: analyze the deal using your own valuations. then take the losing side and change your valuations to the most optimistic reasonable valuations. do the opposite for the side you think won the deal. now look at the deal again, and see if it still looks too far apart to approve, you need to look for any other circumstances that might justify one owner taking such a loss. that might be because there is a huge hole that an owner needs filled, or that the owner has a logjam at a position, or because a team in deficient in one category and might be able to take the bigger hit in other categories. that might be because it is a keeper league, and the losing owner is improving his team for the future. that might be because you are been in a league with a lot of the same owners for a while and you think the losing owner has been an especially strong owner that deserves the benefit of the doubt. and remember, always talk to the owners involved if you can't make sense of the deal on your own.

remember, your job as commish is to look for reasons to approve a deal, not to look for reasons to veto a deal. if you can't find any reason to approve it, then don't.
i'm the guy that puts the "nip" in omnipotent...
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby Oatsdad » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:41 pm

Vetos should be used only for collusion. Screw "league balance". That doesn't exist in the real world, so why is it such a rallying cry in the fantasy world? If someone is willing to make a stupid trade, that's their problem - "league balance" sounds like the mating cry of the Loser Bird! :~(
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Re: Veto: Bad trades or collusion only?

Postby Matthias » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:26 pm

That's funny. "No trade except for collusion" sounds like to me to people who don't know how to define the word collusion.
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