Parity? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Parity?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Parity?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:22 am

I think it demonstrates that money doesn't equal success. It certainly gives you a large advantage over teams that don't have money, but you still need to run your team efficiently. The Yankees spend a load of money but they were horribly run for most of this decade. It appears that they are now finally beginning to turn it around.
25
BronXBombers51
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 11949
(Past Year: 54)
Joined: 8 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Parity?

Postby BritSox » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:40 am

jdsun1 wrote:
BritSox wrote:
The gap between second and eighth is just over 20m dollars. That's, like, one star FA positional player, or one pretty good starter. Even the Yankees are likely to get cheaper in the next couple years, with no obvious big-ticket stars heading to FA, and the Giambi contract coming off the books.

Something that always puzzles me is, why aren't the Phillies in this group? They have the largest unshared market in the US, and yet they're never anywhere near the top in payroll.


Only 20m huh? Baseball will be a joke with these payroll issues and HGH use until they get their act together.


$20m sounds like a lot, but in reality it's what, Barry Zito? Revenue-sharing is meaning that a lot of these guys, the Peavys, the Santanas, are being signed to extensions that are below market value, but set themselves and their families up for life- and giving up a couple of prime years of Free Agency. The consequence is that there are fewer and older Free Agents, which makes it harder to build a winner through that route, and consequently, even twenty million bucks doesn't buy nearly what it used to.

Also, it appears that reducing the number of players defined as class A for draft pick compensation purposes has really helped.
Image
BritSox
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5223
Joined: 5 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: You don't care, do you? No... because you're unconscious.

Re: Parity?

Postby Eagle Baseball » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:07 am

I love baseball. I grew up a baseball fan and continue to be one today. I have two daughters and they love baseball so you can say we are a baseball family. With that being said I think football has the best situation as far as salaries and contracts go. Revenue sharing and non guaranteed contracts with a hard cap and a minimum team salary is the best imo.
Eagle Baseball
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1913
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Parity?

Postby great gretzky » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:55 am

Ender wrote:
jdsun1 wrote:
BritSox wrote:
The gap between second and eighth is just over 20m dollars. That's, like, one star FA positional player, or one pretty good starter. Even the Yankees are likely to get cheaper in the next couple years, with no obvious big-ticket stars heading to FA, and the Giambi contract coming off the books.

Something that always puzzles me is, why aren't the Phillies in this group? They have the largest unshared market in the US, and yet they're never anywhere near the top in payroll.


Only 20m huh? Baseball will be a joke with these payroll issues and HGH use until they get their act together.



Don't mean to be insulting but your attitude in this post really rubbed me wrong, you have to be a complete fool to think that NBA or NFL is in much better of a situation than baseball right now. NFL parity is almost completely driven by the short schedule and the stacked schedule that favors last years lower tiered teams. Even with the salary cap all the advantages go to popular/large market teams and the same teams make the playoffs the majority of the time. The NBA probably has the biggest gaps between the has and the has nots of any major american sport.

Baseball certainly could do more to fix their issues, the Yankees need to be toned down and the 3 or 4 lowest payroll teams needs more help but the parity situation really isn't all that much different between MLB and NFL. The largest difference is the that 2 games divide a crappy team and a playoff team in the NFL.

As for steriods, they are rampant in the NFL because the sport completely ignores it, that is somehow better? I dont' know how the NBA treats it but it is a joke that people insult MLB over the issue as they are ahead of the game, not behind it.


Tobe fair ... The NFL doesn't "stack" the schedule anymore. That used to be the case, but now each team has only two games that are variable each year, 14 of the 16 games are determined years in advance now. Those remaining two games are teams that were similar in your performance the previous year, so that element doesn't hold true for me, especially in light of the unbalanced MLB schedule.

It is also hard to argue that the MLB is "ahead of the game" in terms of addressing it, because the NFL has had testing, and if baseball had done something sooner, it might not be have as much of a problem of public perception that the NFL does on the topic.

I will add however, that it seems the football guys are ahead of the chemical curve, because their unnatural size and ability makes it patently obvious that PEDs are rampant. I also think baseball is held (fairly or unfairly, I can't decide) to a higher standard, because it is a part of our cultural fabric and is a gentleman's game compared to football. I also think that parity is kind of a myth in the NFL to some degree. The short schedule and one game elimination playoff format will skew things, but since the cap is beggining to get mastered, you do see a lot of the same teams over and over in the playoffs, and if those teams miss, they are usually close or had injuries. It's just hard in a game with one game eliminations, where two bounces can make all the difference in the world--football, unlike baseball doesn't account for them to even out over time.

As for the Phillies? It is and has been a complete joke for a long time. The new ownership is better than the past, but still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of spending IMO. They are nickel and diming (well trying to) Howard, and of course he is going to want bigger per year numbers, since they brought him up comparatively later, and really were tight in terms of bringing him up to keep arbitration from starting. Guy wins rookie of the year, MVP, then has a down year where he hit 47 HRs and had good average in the second half. But they take the guy to arbitration. I don't get that.
great gretzky
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 3769
Joined: 3 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Parity?

Postby tmlfan4ever » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:34 am

50% of those teams listed didn't make the playoffs last year.
Image
tmlfan4ever
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 438
Joined: 2 Apr 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Re: Parity?

Postby Bloody Sox » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:58 am

great gretzky wrote:To be fair ... The NFL doesn't "stack" the schedule anymore. That used to be the case, but now each team has only two games that are variable each year, 14 of the 16 games are determined years in advance now. Those remaining two games are teams that were similar in your performance the previous year, so that element doesn't hold true for me, especially in light of the unbalanced MLB schedule.

Actually - this is completely false. In advance, you can only tell me that a team will be playing its division opponents twice (6 games) and one entire division from the other conference (4 games) - the other 6 games are based solely on your position in the standings. If you suck, you play other crappy teams, which makes it easier to compete the next year. If baseball did this, it would be the equivalent of having 60 games on the schedule decided based on your record the previous year, where bad teams would play other bad teams more often (and vice-versa). Actually sounds like a decent idea... :-?

Looks like the Red Sox have some company in the second tier of payrolls... nice that I won't have to read hundreds of posts claiming that the Sox and Yanks are the exact same and worlds ahead of everyone else from a competitive standpoint (which was never really the case, the Sox just happened to be at the head of the second tier).
"The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else"
Bloody Sox
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2148
(Past Year: 18)
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Fenway Park, RF Roof Deck

Re: Parity?

Postby jcobb79 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:28 am

Bloody Sox wrote:
great gretzky wrote:To be fair ... The NFL doesn't "stack" the schedule anymore. That used to be the case, but now each team has only two games that are variable each year, 14 of the 16 games are determined years in advance now. Those remaining two games are teams that were similar in your performance the previous year, so that element doesn't hold true for me, especially in light of the unbalanced MLB schedule.

Actually - this is completely false. In advance, you can only tell me that a team will be playing its division opponents twice (6 games) and one entire division from the other conference (4 games) - the other 6 games are based solely on your position in the standings. If you suck, you play other crappy teams, which makes it easier to compete the next year. If baseball did this, it would be the equivalent of having 60 games on the schedule decided based on your record the previous year


In addition what is stated above, parity is generally judged by playoff appearances. When comparing the major sports MLB, NFL, and NBA one cannot forget that there are varying playoff opportunities in each league MLB-8, NFL-12, and NBA-16 %-6 . The result of these extra playoff spots not only creates a false since of parity in these leagues but also results in devaluing the regular season. This is clearly the case in the NBA particularly in the eastern conference were a below .500 team will make the playoffs. In MLB every year there will be good teams that will not make the playoffs; I don’t feel the same can be said for the NFL or NBA.
Image
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra
jcobb79
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 627
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Somewhere pretty pretty pretty good

Re: Parity?

Postby BritSox » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:40 am

Well, yes, the blow this strikes to the EE mk2 jibes is quite satisfying, as a Sox fan.

But beyond the narrow, partisan aspects, even the Yankees are starting to be less like the Yankees. As BronX noted, there's a ton of money coming off their payroll next year, and I doubt that'll all be spent. Four out of five [NYY starters in their opening day rotation were products of their farm system. Three of five are pre-arb, and two of five are rookies. When the New York Yankees, of all people, are starting the season with two rookies in their rotation, you know the playing field's changed somewhat.

Now, they could go out next season and replace Giambi, Moose and Pettitte with Teix, Sabathia and Sheets, and all this is worthless. But realistically, I think maybe they go for one of those? Likely Teix as it's the one obvious hole in the Yankee lineup, and he's young enough and good enough to become a cornerstone going forward.
Image
BritSox
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5223
Joined: 5 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: You don't care, do you? No... because you're unconscious.

Re: Parity?

Postby Apollo » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:42 am

All that list says to me is that the divide between the haves and the have-nots is getting steeper. Before you used to have the Yankees and the Red Sox and a whole bunch of teams in the middle (and then the Royals and Marlins at the bottom). That meant the AL East was totally messed up, but the other divisions were reasonably competitive. Now you have eight or nine teams that spend a bunch and throw off the balance in every division.

Take for instance my Cleveland Indians. Playing in the 27th-largest market, you could make a case that they have been the best-run team in baseball for the last three years or so. They're contending on miniscule payrolls, led the league in wins last year, should have won the division two years before that, and are loaded with young talent. But Detroit spends a bajillion dollars on Magglio Ordonez, Gary Sheffield, Pudge Rodriguez, Edgar Renteria and Miguel Cabrera, and there's a good chance that all of the Indians' superior management will mean nothing. If the Indians were dumb enough to give $10.5 million to Pudge, or $9 million to Edgar Renteria, or $8 million to Kenny Rogers, they'd be crippled for years by those deals.

And then, even if we manage to hold off the Tigers again this year, somebody like the Yankees are going to sign away CC Sabathia in the off-season and we'll be out a Cy Young winner. I have all the faith in the world in Mark Shapiro, but at some point in the next five years Victor and Grady and Fausto are all going to be free agents, and some idiot GM will give Jhonny Peralta $9 million, and we'll have to go through another 5 years of losing and rebuilding. And I'll watch my favorite players wearing Seattle Mariners uniforms.

If everything goes absolutely perfectly, and Shapiro doesn't make a single mistake, we'll have another two-year window of contention around 2014.

You think that's parity? Does a Red Sox fan ever have to contemplate something like that?
Apollo
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 515
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: IL

Re: Parity?

Postby KCollins1304 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:46 am

The teams with payrolls below $60M are causing many more problems for MLB than the ones spending $100M.
Image
KCollins1304
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5089
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Charlotte, NC

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Sep. 30
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Oakland at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact