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Holds, Wins, and Saves

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Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:54 pm

The next time someone complains to me that holds are a lousy fantasy stat because you can pitch lousy and still get a hold...

...I'm just going to pull out Eric Gagne's pitching line today!
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to chase it."
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Re: Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby NZ Eff » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:01 pm

The criteria for all three is ridiculous, it's just that the hold criteria is the most ridiculous. I mean you don't even need to get someone out to register a hold. At least for a win and a save you have to do that.
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Re: Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby tmlfan4ever » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:03 pm

NZ Eff wrote:The criteria for all three is ridiculous, it's just that the hold criteria is the most ridiculous. I mean you don't even need to get someone out to register a hold. At least for a win and a save you have to do that.


Agreed. Holds are like the worse of three evils. There is also very little knowledge required to get them. Everyone and anyone can get a hold, at least with saves you have to monitor bullpen situations closely.
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Re: Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:18 pm

NZ Eff wrote:The criteria for all three is ridiculous, it's just that the hold criteria is the most ridiculous. I mean you don't even need to get someone out to register a hold. At least for a win and a save you have to do that.


That's wrong. You do have to retire a batter to get a hold. There are two different definitions that were originally used in holds, one of which (USATODAY?) required no out being recorded


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold_(baseball)
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Re: Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:20 pm

tmlfan4ever wrote:
NZ Eff wrote:The criteria for all three is ridiculous, it's just that the hold criteria is the most ridiculous. I mean you don't even need to get someone out to register a hold. At least for a win and a save you have to do that.


Agreed. Holds are like the worse of three evils. There is also very little knowledge required to get them. Everyone and anyone can get a hold, at least with saves you have to monitor bullpen situations closely.


Anyone and everyone can get homers. Does that make them useless? Or does it make it necessary to balance a player's contributions across multiple dimensions?

Sorry guys. You can decide you don't like holds for your personal preferences. But, there's NO logical reason for treating holds differently than any other fantasy stat.
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Re: Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby flloyd » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:15 pm

I've been thinking recently that the ideal 5x5 categories would be Saves+Holds as a single scoring category rather than Saves alone (ESPN supports this). It just seems to be a much more accurate representation of a real baseball team and gives middle relievers real worth on a fantasy team without giving them too much, which occurs if you count saves and holds as two categories.
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Re: Holds, Wins, and Saves

Postby bazzy_51 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:44 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
tmlfan4ever wrote:
NZ Eff wrote:The criteria for all three is ridiculous, it's just that the hold criteria is the most ridiculous. I mean you don't even need to get someone out to register a hold. At least for a win and a save you have to do that.


Agreed. Holds are like the worse of three evils. There is also very little knowledge required to get them. Everyone and anyone can get a hold, at least with saves you have to monitor bullpen situations closely.


Anyone and everyone can get homers. Does that make them useless? Or does it make it necessary to balance a player's contributions across multiple dimensions?

Sorry guys. You can decide you don't like holds for your personal preferences. But, there's NO logical reason for treating holds differently than any other fantasy stat.


i agree with this statement...heck now-a-days baseball's closers are getting like the NFL's running backs, in the sense that they are rotating and changing closers like they change their underwear...i mean i agree with missagnes there is a reason for every stat in baseball so why not use them? i mean do real MLB teams say a guy like Pat Neshek u are not good enough to be a starting pitcher and go 6-8 innings, but your stuff isn't quite good enough to close so um we are just going to not use you? no guys like neshek, shields, marmol (for the time being), turnbow, heath bell, hideki okajima has great stuff to get a job done and thats to cover the innings inbetween the guys they are not quite able to be in the closing role and starting pitching role...but then again u look at these guys and they are some of the most valuable pitchers on the team because if you have a couple real good ones then it takes more of the load off your SP and CL because your SP doesn't have to go AS long into a game and your Closer doesn't have to pitch an inning and a third or 2 thirds somethin like that instead they can concentrate on that one inning or even last 2 outs...so i think holds is a very valuable stat and worth just as much as any other pitching stat and not just a gimme
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