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Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby kemper5 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:08 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:
kemper5 wrote:It's Morneau plain and simple..It's all in the #'s people, he should of had his 2nd MVP last year, but spunky Pad's won it..

He never should have even won his first MVP award. Mauer was worth way more to his team than Morneau. Way way more. Mauer had a higher OPS, played a much tougher defensive position, and played it exceptionally well.



True..True..I like Mauer too, but Mauer did not go out 162 games and go 34 HR, 130 RBI, 190 Hit's, 97 Runs and a nice .321 Ave, Morneau was absolutely clutch that year and drove in the teamates to get the Twins the W's and to the playoffs and trumping Mauer in almost everything but Ave..That year Morneau hit .348 in Sept and Oct and .410 in July..He carried them into the playoffs on fire like a MVP should..Justin was to the Twins that season what Matt Holliday was to the Rockies in 07' down the stretch..In the playoffs that year..Morneau 5 for 12, scored almost 1/2 their runs and had 2 HR's in 3 games..Mauer when it counted.. 2 for 11 and no HR's..no RBI's
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:25 pm

again, you are focusing on archaic counting stats. And who cares what happened in September. Why is September more important than June? A win in September counts just as much as a win a June.

And even if Morneau continued his second half pace all year, Mauer would STILL have been more valuable to his team since Mauer put up equivalent offense at a significantly more valuable defensive position plus the fact that Mauer is an exceptionally great defensive catcher while Morneau is a mediocre 1B.

It's oversights like this that make the whole "ohhh, I can't vote for Tim Raines for the Hall of Fame because he wasn't always at the top of the MVP voting". Well, MVP and Cy Young voters are idiots.

Is anyone going to tell me that Morneau should make the Hall of Fame over Mauer? Of course not. But check the MVP voting records.
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby kemper5 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:38 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:again, you are focusing on archaic counting stats. And who cares what happened in September. Why is September more important than June? A win in September counts just as much as a win a June.

And even if Morneau continued his second half pace all year, Mauer would STILL have been more valuable to his team since Mauer put up equivalent offense at a significantly more valuable defensive position plus the fact that Mauer is an exceptionally great defensive catcher while Morneau is a mediocre 1B.

It's oversights like this that make the whole "ohhh, I can't vote for Tim Raines for the Hall of Fame because he wasn't always at the top of the MVP voting". Well, MVP and Cy Young voters are idiots.

Is anyone going to tell me that Morneau should make the Hall of Fame over Mauer? Of course not. But check the MVP voting records.



Alot if most MVP awards count when the heat is on down the stretch and into Oct alot..If a player carries a team, he will garnish many a MVP vote..Like Morneau does..I do like Mauer, and know he gets a vote here and there, but Morneau does the job when it matters in the battle for the title..
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:43 pm

"Archaic counting stats" lol. :-b
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:44 pm

kemper5 wrote:Alot if most MVP awards count when the heat is on down the stretch and into Oct alot..If a player carries a team, he will garnish many a MVP vote..Like Morneau does..I do like Mauer, and know he gets a vote here and there, but Morneau does the job when it matters in the battle for the title..

Whoosh. :-b
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby kemper5 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:47 pm

Last year was a good example of how heavily a MVP vote weighs in the 2nd half and down the stretch..Josh Hamilton had a mind blowing year overall, almost 100 RBI at the AS break, but faltered down the stretch hit below .300 and had 35 RBI's post All Star..Meanwhile Pedroia carried a Mannyless, Pappy wrist injured team and hit nearly .350 post AS and had amazing clutch hits and D to boot.. If we are talking MVP's..They are not won in June to me, they are won when it matters to the teams drive to the post season
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:50 pm

kemper, does your league have MVPs as a stat category? If not, MVP voting has no bearing whatsoever on proving that one player should be drafted higher than another.
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:51 pm

Ok, well first of all, Hamilton, even through the AS break wasn't even the most valuable player on his own team. That was Ian Kinsler. Second, Hamilton should have been nowhere near the top in MVP votes.

Your top 3 factors for MVP voting appear to be:
1. August-September numbers
2. Home runs
3. RBIs

Welcome to 1987!

And sorry, I've hi-jacked this thread. But then again, the thread is from a year ago, so I don't know why it was even topped or merged in the first place.

Regardless.
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby BritSox » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:24 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:
kemper5 wrote:It's Morneau plain and simple..It's all in the #'s people, he should of had his 2nd MVP last year, but spunky Pad's won it..

He never should have even won his first MVP award. Mauer was worth way more to his team than Morneau. Way way more. Mauer had a higher OPS, played a much tougher defensive position, and played it exceptionally well.


Jeter should have won it that year (his baserunning being the deciding factor imho) though you're right in that Mauer was a better candidate than JM. Mauer should have won this year.
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Re: Justin Morneau is not even a 5th rounder

Postby kemper5 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:11 pm

BritSox wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:
kemper5 wrote:It's Morneau plain and simple..It's all in the #'s people, he should of had his 2nd MVP last year, but spunky Pad's won it..

He never should have even won his first MVP award. Mauer was worth way more to his team than Morneau. Way way more. Mauer had a higher OPS, played a much tougher defensive position, and played it exceptionally well.


Jeter should have won it that year (his baserunning being the deciding factor imho) though you're right in that Mauer was a better candidate than JM. Mauer should have won this year.


NO way Mauer was a better candidate, he did not even win the gold glove that year and was good, but not great in his 2nd full season defensively , he played in 120 games or so and had what 11 HR's and 80 RBI's and 80 runs type season..He had 1 thing to go on a batting title..Morneau brought more wins and out produced him
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