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Lackey/Kazmir

Postby mielke » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:41 pm

What is the consensus out there on these injuries ... any real reason to be spoooked by this duo?

How far have these guys fallen in the early drafts ... esp in relation to Halladay, Felix H., Cain, Hudson ....

Any insight would be appreciated.
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby stevekahuda » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:08 pm

I wouldn't touch Kazmir with a ten foot poll. He dropped in round 7 in my first draft (pre injury) to 10 in my second (post injury), and I wouldn't have drafted him in the 14th. It sounds too similar to Harden last year. Everyone minimizes it, but he's still not throwing a baseball, which is a bad sign. If Lackey starts throwing again soon, i would consider him less of a risk
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:54 pm

stevekahuda wrote:I wouldn't touch Kazmir with a ten foot poll. He dropped in round 7 in my first draft (pre injury) to 10 in my second (post injury), and I wouldn't have drafted him in the 14th. It sounds too similar to Harden last year. Everyone minimizes it, but he's still not throwing a baseball, which is a bad sign. If Lackey starts throwing again soon, i would consider him less of a risk


lies... He's been throwing the last week.

Mar 26 LHP Scott Kazmir was officially placed on the 15-day disabled list Tuesday, but the bigger news was that he is tentatively scheduled to return to the mound next week. Kazmir, who sustained an elbow strain Feb. 26, has not thrown off a mound since Feb. 13. He has been playing catch with no problems, feeling good and getting better, according to manager Joe Maddon. It seems unlikely Kazmir will pitch in the majors before late April. Yahoo! Sports


Mar 26 Updating previous reports, Rays.MLB.com's Bill Chastain reports Tampa Bay Rays SP Scott Kazmir (elbow) threw long toss Tuesday, March 25, and will take the day off Wednesday. Manager Joe Maddon said they will try to move him to 120 feet by the end of the week and on the mound next week. KFFL


Mar 25 The Rays have announced their throwing schedule for Kazmir (elbow), the Tampa Tribune reports. It's a very conservative approach that likely delays Kazmir's return to game action until sometime after April 15.
Recommendation: According to the report, Kazmir will spend the remainder of the last week of spring training throwing off flat ground at progressively longer distances. He'll then start pitching off the mound on or about April 1, and it's likely Kazmir will need two more weeks from there to build up to the point where he can pitch in a major league game. Although the Rays did not specifically say so, it's quite possible Kazmir will need at least one minor league game appearance before he comes off the DL for the Rays.
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby Caveman_Nick » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:58 pm

From rotowire...

Mar 28 Kazmir (elbow) made about 80 throws off flat ground from 120 feet on Friday, and is scheduled to pitch in a bullpen session on Sunday, the Rays web site reports.
Recommendation: Kazmir said he "felt great" after Friday's session. After he's thrown off the mound a few times, Kazmir will make some minor-league rehab appearances (probably two) before returning to action for the Rays sometime in mid-April.
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby mielke » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:01 pm

Wow .. kind of scary .... but kind of exciting. hmmm.

What of Lackey, is there any general concern? He did have elbow issues early in camp before the triceps issue. Any chance there is more going on? How far did he fall in drafts?
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby stevekahuda » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:38 pm

Yoda wrote:
stevekahuda wrote:I wouldn't touch Kazmir with a ten foot poll. He dropped in round 7 in my first draft (pre injury) to 10 in my second (post injury), and I wouldn't have drafted him in the 14th. It sounds too similar to Harden last year. Everyone minimizes it, but he's still not throwing a baseball, which is a bad sign. If Lackey starts throwing again soon, i would consider him less of a risk


lies... He's been throwing the last week.

Mar 26 LHP Scott Kazmir was officially placed on the 15-day disabled list Tuesday, but the bigger news was that he is tentatively scheduled to return to the mound next week. Kazmir, who sustained an elbow strain Feb. 26, has not thrown off a mound since Feb. 13. He has been playing catch with no problems, feeling good and getting better, according to manager Joe Maddon. It seems unlikely Kazmir will pitch in the majors before late April. Yahoo! Sports


Mar 26 Updating previous reports, Rays.MLB.com's Bill Chastain reports Tampa Bay Rays SP Scott Kazmir (elbow) threw long toss Tuesday, March 25, and will take the day off Wednesday. Manager Joe Maddon said they will try to move him to 120 feet by the end of the week and on the mound next week. KFFL


Long toss doesn't really count :-/ . Geez, where have I heard that before (Harden, cough, cough). When he's throwing a baseball in the 70s - 80s again without pain, then I would trust him enough to draft him. MLB teams lie all the time about injuries. I hope he's not hurt, but I wouldn't take him over a pitcher i would think would be useful fantasy wise. Pitchers are enough of a crapshoot without drafting guys that already have injuries.
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:49 pm

stevekahuda wrote:Long toss doesn't really count :-/ . Geez, where have I heard that before (Harden, cough, cough). When he's throwing a baseball in the 70s - 80s again without pain, then I would trust him enough to draft him. MLB teams lie all the time about injuries. I hope he's not hurt, but I wouldn't take him over a pitcher i would think would be useful fantasy wise. Pitchers are enough of a crapshoot without drafting guys that already have injuries.


So you are comparing Kazmir to Harden while blatantly ignoring a bigger injury risk in Lackey?

stevekahuda wrote:If Lackey starts throwing again soon, i would consider him less of a risk


Can you say hypocrite?
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby Bogey9906 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:57 pm

From ESPN chat today:

Brad (Toledo) : Stephania, Is it time to start being seriously concerned about Kazmir or are they just being overly cautious? It always makes me nervous when pitchers keep getting pushed back. Thanks!

SportsNation Stephania Bell: Hi Brad: Great question - everyone wondering the same thing. From the rehab side, I totally understand this b/c it is very typical of how these gradual returns to throwing go. But I can see why it is frustrating from a fan standpoint. I don't think the team is being overly cautious, but yes, they're being cautious. Just think - if they wait an extra week or two now, it could mean the difference between a healthy remainder of a season and a return to the DL in a month with ongoing problems. Arm issues with throwers can be that subtle and that fickle. They use not only pain, but evidence of how hard they're able to throw, command, etc to determine what the overall arm strength is and how they're looking as far as progress. If they see something suggesting even minor weakness, they will adjust the timeline, even if the athlete tells them he feels fine. It is extremely fluid, really one day to the next. I have to say, I think they're being smart. Kazmir appears to be progressing on par, but the team was concerned with strength, and wanted more time to build that up before putting him in the rotation. I'm not nervous about what I'm seeing with him.

Obviously there's risk, but I feel better about Kazmir with everything I've read the past couple of days. I'm hopeful he'll just miss 3-4 starts and be back strong by the end of April. That's not too bad for my H2H league.

I think Lackey is a much bigger risk, with both elbow and triceps problems, not to mention a mid-May return estimate.
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby mielke » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Bogey9906 wrote:
I think Lackey is a much bigger risk, with both elbow and triceps problems, not to mention a mid-May return estimate.


Has there been any talk at all of Lackey's elbow since early in camp .. it seemed like it barked ... then calmed down and everything was supposedly OK ... then the triceps.

is there any reason for concern with the elbow other than just speculation and people putting 2 and 3 together ... ?

Obviously if it's just the triceps at this point, that is not so big of an issue.
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Re: Lackey/Kazmir

Postby Bogey9906 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:43 pm

mielke wrote:Has there been any talk at all of Lackey's elbow since early in camp .. it seemed like it barked ... then calmed down and everything was supposedly OK ... then the triceps.

is there any reason for concern with the elbow other than just speculation and people putting 2 and 3 together ... ?

Obviously if it's just the triceps at this point, that is not so big of an issue.

For me, it's just speculation because of the two arm issues coming up so soon for a guy that has been very durable to this point. He could be back in May and be fine, but at least Kazmir is on a throwing schedule with an April return estimate. There seems to be more unknown about Lackey right now, and hence more risk.

I had planned all winter to keep Lackey as a 14th round pick until a couple of days before my draft. I decided to toss him back because of the injury and kept Hermida in the 19th instead (and now he's going on the DL too). Now, if only I'd drafted Felix instead of Kazmir, I'd be sitting pretty going into the season instead of looking for every little rehab update each day!
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