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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby chipper » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:34 pm

Personally I don't think there's much to worry about. I just don't.

Especially with Furcal looking better this year. A lot of Pierre's value to the Dodgers last year came from the fact that Furcal (their leadoff man) was injured and/or not performing well. With him productive at the top of that lineup, you really don't need another guy like that. Also I think his bench value is more than Kemp/Ethier since he can be brought in to leadoff an inning.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:43 pm

Well, we didn't pay Pierre an absurd contract for him to warm the bench all season long and so there will be an odd man out among Ethier or Kemp every now and then. It's something I wouldn't worry about too much as Kemp will see a lion's share of playing time; he even pinch-hit for Pierre last night.

I found it interesting to see Joe stick with Russell Martin in the two-hole and have Pierre hit 7th behind Loney. I think Joe is just shuffling pieces around this early to figure out his best lineup configuration.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby walkoffblast » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:44 pm

"It's hard to sit Pierre given his contract"

Unless you are interested in winning games. If the player is going to cost you a lot you should not compound the problem by having him cost you games as well. Two wrongs do not make a right type situation.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:46 pm

Hasn't all of this already been beaten to death here: viewtopic.php?t=331597
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby Yoda » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:08 pm

walkoffblast wrote:"It's hard to sit Pierre given his contract"

Unless you are interested in winning games. If the player is going to cost you a lot you should not compound the problem by having him cost you games as well. Two wrongs do not make a right type situation.


True but if Pierre is not that much worse than whoever is out there right now then why would you sit him? Unless someone runs away with the job, I see all those guys interchangeable. Another possibility is platooning Loney as well.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby swyck » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:12 pm

Yoda wrote:
walkoffblast wrote:"It's hard to sit Pierre given his contract"

Unless you are interested in winning games. If the player is going to cost you a lot you should not compound the problem by having him cost you games as well. Two wrongs do not make a right type situation.


True but if Pierre is not that much worse than whoever is out there right now then why would you sit him? Unless someone runs away with the job, I see all those guys interchangeable. Another possibility is platooning Loney as well.


Bingo! He is that much worse then the other players out there. No they are not interchangeable in that Ethier and Kemp are both >> Pierre at this stage of his career. I do agree that Pierre will get a fair number of ABS, but I see only <300. Besides, think of what a great pinch runner he'd make.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby Yoda » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:17 pm

swyck wrote:
Yoda wrote:
walkoffblast wrote:"It's hard to sit Pierre given his contract"

Unless you are interested in winning games. If the player is going to cost you a lot you should not compound the problem by having him cost you games as well. Two wrongs do not make a right type situation.


True but if Pierre is not that much worse than whoever is out there right now then why would you sit him? Unless someone runs away with the job, I see all those guys interchangeable. Another possibility is platooning Loney as well.


Bingo! He is that much worse then the other players out there. No they are not interchangeable in that Ethier and Kemp are both >> Pierre at this stage of his career. I do agree that Pierre will get a fair number of ABS, but I see only <300. Besides, think of what a great pinch runner he'd make.


Well, ok. Pierre is clearly the worst out of the four but if/when the other guys are struggling while Pierre is going well, then what? You have to go with the hot hand. None of the other guys are exactly established (except Andruw) or are at superstar level.

Pierre is going to get his share of ABs whether you guys like it or not. To think otherwise is a huge mistake.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby swyck » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:43 pm

Yoda wrote:
Well, ok. Pierre is clearly the worst out of the four but if/when the other guys are struggling while Pierre is going well, then what? You have to go with the hot hand. None of the other guys are exactly established (except Andruw) or are at superstar level.

Pierre is going to get his share of ABs whether you guys like it or not. To think otherwise is a huge mistake.


Agreed. If Pierre gets around 300 ABs and its split between Ethier or Kemp, then that would put those guys around 400-450 ABs. If he take more from one or the other, that could significantly hurt that guy. Since I think Kemp is going to rake, or at least play really well, those 450 quality ABs would still have value over someone like Ibanez or Blake.

I agree that there will be a three way ongoing battle for the starting job (not a real platoon) at the start of the season that could last a while. But I do think it should shake itself out over course of the season if players play well enough to lay claim to those slots. IMHO I expect Ethier and Kemp will play that much better then Pierre and get themselves to at least 500 ABs, but its up to them to earn those ABs, and it up to Pierre to grab those ABs back. Well see how it shakes out.

Me I think this is part of the fun of baseball, even if I have Kemp on a team, and was expecting him to be my 3rd OF.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby Yoda » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:47 pm

swyck wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Well, ok. Pierre is clearly the worst out of the four but if/when the other guys are struggling while Pierre is going well, then what? You have to go with the hot hand. None of the other guys are exactly established (except Andruw) or are at superstar level.

Pierre is going to get his share of ABs whether you guys like it or not. To think otherwise is a huge mistake.


Agreed. If Pierre gets around 300 ABs and its split between Ethier or Kemp, then that would put those guys around 400-450 ABs. If he take more from one or the other, that could significantly hurt that guy. Since I think Kemp is going to rake, or at least play really well, those 450 quality ABs would still have value over someone like Ibanez or Blake.

I agree that there will be a three way ongoing battle for the starting job (not a real platoon) at the start of the season that could last a while. But I do think it should shake itself out over course of the season if players play well enough to lay claim to those slots. IMHO I expect Ethier and Kemp will play that much better then Pierre and get themselves to at least 500 ABs, but its up to them to earn those ABs, and it up to Pierre to grab those ABs back. Well see how it shakes out.

Me I think this is part of the fun of baseball, even if I have Kemp on a team, and was expecting him to be my 3rd OF.


I think we are both saying the same thing pretty much. Pierre, as long as he is healthy and semi productive, will steal ABs from Kemp/Ethier and maybe even Andruw/Loney.

It is possible that both Kemp/Ethier will run away with the job but there is still a good chance that one or both may struggle at some point which will continue to leave the door open for Pierre.
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Re: Kemps value if he platoons?

Postby chipper » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:55 pm

I would argue that Andruw Jones, while a huge asset in CF, is the least valuable at the plate.
As a lifelong Braves fan I've grown tired of his approach at the plate. Pitchers get him out the same way everytime. A very bad signing by the Dodgers, IMO.
Better than the Pierre sigining though :-D
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