Define Clutch - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Define Clutch

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:35 pm

I hate to give this subject more life, but perhaps there is a reason that we can't find clutch sabermetrically. Do players generally perform as well in "clutch" situations as they do in a regular game? No, they don't. In major league baseball in 1995, for example, the slugging percentage (SLG) in clutch situations was .393 while in non-clutch situations it was .421. For on-base percentage (OBP) these numbers were .3346 and .3353, respectively.

So maybe a player can be called "clutch" if he only lives up to his norm - given the average statistical drop-off.

Just a thought.

(by the way - I got my numbers from an interesting study done by an economics professor here http://members.aol.com/cyrilmorong/myho ... rience.htm)
Absolutely Adequate
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5000
Joined: 6 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not here.

Postby Lofunzo » Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:58 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
ajgdrummer7 wrote: There is more to life than statistics. Jeter has played for us and won us championships. That is the only reason I defend him when people say he should move. I agree A-Rod would be better but Jeter earned his spot.

Also, I said I'd feel the most comfortable with Jeter up there in that spot. I didn't say he'd definately succeed. Trans proved me somewhat wrong on that.


I don't get this he earned the spot. In previous seasons yes, but things change. The best SS in bb now is there. They won with Sojo too. Should NY have kept Soriano on the bench, because they won with Sojo (4 rings btw).


Hootie.......I think that by earned, he means that Jeter is the captain of the team and a big part of the championships that they have won. It's kind of like getting Piazza out from behind the plate. You don't want to rock the boat but you'd hope that they would recommend it for the good of the team. I agree that A-Rod should be at SS but, unfortunately, it's Jeter's call. That is until he gets hurt and George wants A-Rod at SS. ;-)
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby DK » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:07 pm

Lofunzo wrote: It's kind of like getting Piazza out from behind the plate. You don't want to rock the boat but you'd hope that they would recommend it for the good of the team.


Well, Piazza's probably going to move (Although I don't agree with it). Unlike Jeter, he can swallow his pride for the good of the team.
Image
DK
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 9533
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: on deck

Postby HOOTIE » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:14 pm

Mookie4ever wrote: Some players excel in these situations some don't. A lot of good pitchers have flamed out as closers. It takes more than a good fastball and a splitter to be a closer. As a great man once said this game is 90% mental the other 50% is physical.

My question is - why is there a separate saves cat? and are closers a different breed of player? Are they clutch?


Not all stats are equal. Just like a quarters worth more then a penny. Saves are probebly the most worthless stat out there. You reward a guy for pitching a inning with a 3 run lead, while say in the 7th or 8th inning, you get no reward for pitching in a tie or 1 run lead, other then a hold. A guy can get a save having a game era of 18.00. I think that in itself shows the weakness in saves, and blown saves as well.

Gagne is used in the 9th, but it would make more sense to use him in the 7th or 8th if needed. Since he's the best non sp on the team, it makes no sense to use him with a 5 run lead. Gagne isn't used in the 1st inning, because a mgr wants his sp to eat at least 5 or 6 innings. Gagne hasn't shown he can face hitters 2 or 3 times a game. That's why Gagne doesn't pitch then. Really simple answer. Your bullpen would be spent if he came in early, and what would be the point of having sp? Guys can excel at closer because they face a hitter only once, they don't have the stamina to start, etc.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 297)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Postby Lofunzo » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:17 pm

DK wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: It's kind of like getting Piazza out from behind the plate. You don't want to rock the boat but you'd hope that they would recommend it for the good of the team.


Well, Piazza's probably going to move (Although I don't agree with it). Unlike Jeter, he can swallow his pride for the good of the team.


Give it time. There had been rumblings about moving Piazza for a while and it's just now getting done. He has selfishly dragged his feet on this because he wanted the all-time HR record for catchers. Last year, all parties involved were to blame for the mess that moving him became. Give Jeter time. A-Rod just got there.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby DK » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:22 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
DK wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: It's kind of like getting Piazza out from behind the plate. You don't want to rock the boat but you'd hope that they would recommend it for the good of the team.


Well, Piazza's probably going to move (Although I don't agree with it). Unlike Jeter, he can swallow his pride for the good of the team.


Give it time. There had been rumblings about moving Piazza for a while and it's just now getting done. He has selfishly dragged his feet on this because he wanted the all-time HR record for catchers. Last year, all parties involved were to blame for the mess that moving him became. Give Jeter time. A-Rod just got there.


Eh, that's true. On the other hand, Jeter isn't playing SS for anything but his own pride. Piazza actually has a record he wants to achieve. Don't forget that.
Image
DK
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 9533
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: on deck

Postby Lofunzo » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:34 pm

DK wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
DK wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: It's kind of like getting Piazza out from behind the plate. You don't want to rock the boat but you'd hope that they would recommend it for the good of the team.


Well, Piazza's probably going to move (Although I don't agree with it). Unlike Jeter, he can swallow his pride for the good of the team.


Give it time. There had been rumblings about moving Piazza for a while and it's just now getting done. He has selfishly dragged his feet on this because he wanted the all-time HR record for catchers. Last year, all parties involved were to blame for the mess that moving him became. Give Jeter time. A-Rod just got there.


Eh, that's true. On the other hand, Jeter isn't playing SS for anything but his own pride. Piazza actually has a record he wants to achieve. Don't forget that.


I understand that but is it right for Piazza to put wanting a record above what is best for the team? Even though it might be obvious to us, maybe it isn't to Jeter. To him, he is a guy making $19 million/year, he gets more a** in a night than I do in a lifetime, he is the captain of the team, and he has played SS for a team that has been very successful for 8 years.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby Trot Nixon » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:47 pm

I know he plays a different sport but Tom Brady is clutch
Image
Thanks chipper!!!!

There is such a thing called clutch and David Ortiz is the modern day definition of it
Trot Nixon
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2360
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Wishing Nixon would come back to the Sox

Postby ajgnydc722 » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:49 pm

not as clutch as quincy carter and them cowboys.... ;-7
ajgnydc722
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4067
Joined: 11 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: THE EMPIRE

Postby wrveres » Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:49 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
Gagne is used in the 9th, but it would make more sense to use him in the 7th or 8th if needed. Since he's the best non sp on the team, it makes no sense to use him with a 5 run lead. Gagne isn't used in the 1st inning, because a mgr wants his sp to eat at least 5 or 6 innings. Gagne hasn't shown he can face hitters 2 or 3 times a game. That's why Gagne doesn't pitch then. Really simple answer. Your bullpen would be spent if he came in early, and what would be the point of having sp? Guys can excel at closer because they face a hitter only once, they don't have the stamina to start, etc.


hootie, I think that is what he was explaining to his father ... I may be wrong, but i think that is what he was explaining ..
25                "Love the Padres"
Rafael

Dodgers FAIL|Mets FAIL|Canada FAIL
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31781
(Past Year: 732)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ballaxomiafef and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Sep. 22
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Baltimore at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
Seattle at Toronto
(7:07 pm)
Chi White Sox at Detroit
(7:08 pm)
Pittsburgh at Atlanta
(7:10 pm)
St. Louis at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
Houston at Texas
(8:05 pm)

Sunday, Aug. 31

Cleveland at Cody
(8:07 pm)
indoors

Monday, Sep. 22

Arizona at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
San Francisco at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
Colorado at San Diego
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact