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Borowski vs. Betancourt

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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby SignGuy » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:34 pm

hybrid wrote:Borowski does indeed blow, though the Indians are on record saying they would like to keep Betancourt in the set up role and not move him to closer if Borowski falters. Which leads me to think Kobayashi or Perez would get the first shot at closing if something does happen.


Got a link?
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby jondunc » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:56 pm

Indians are following the old "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule. Plus, if you follow leverage data, using your best pitchers in primarily close, multiple inning situations is actually a better strategy. In most years a team actually gets more value out a very good MR than a very good closer simply because they pitch more innings and perform in more high leverage situations. That said, I believe Kobayashi would get the nod if Borowski falls apart, Betancourt has previous failure as a closer looming over him.
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby TheGhost76777 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:36 pm

Indians fan here. Betancourt won't close. He has had chances in the past and can not handle the job. Kobie will be first in line no doubt, but I wouldn't count Perez out either. Perez is either going to be our future closer, or will go into the rotation when C.C. leaves depending on the progression of Lofgren/Miller.
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby TheGhost » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:59 am

Wow... thanks for the insight and I mean that. Apparently from this thread, MR guys (specifically Betancourt) don't have a lot of value in a 10 team league. I've never heard of the Indians' Perez or Kobiyashi. I think I'd be much better off adding Matt Garza, Brandon Lyon, etc.
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby hybrid » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:04 am

SignGuy wrote:
hybrid wrote:Borowski does indeed blow, though the Indians are on record saying they would like to keep Betancourt in the set up role and not move him to closer if Borowski falters. Which leads me to think Kobayashi or Perez would get the first shot at closing if something does happen.


Got a link?


I looked real quick for it, but I'm not sure were I read it and didn't find it. So um you can believe me on blind faith? O:-)
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:41 am

i didn't know betancourt was so bad in save opps. can you tell me his stats when he was given the chance to close? maybe i should've gotten kobayashi, but betancourt still provides good stats despite no saves.
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby AcidRock23 » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:57 am

I find the game log feature can be pretty illuminating for looking at these sorts of questions:

Betancourt '07 game log

and, what the heck, let's look at JoBo too...

Borowski '07 game log

They both appear to have been adequate and Betancourt seems like a very small sample size to be saying things like 'he struggled when closing' like Cleveland seems to think. I guess that they are closer to the situation though? :-?

Draftwise, I'd rather take my chances at Betancourt for now as his stuff seems to translate more into lights out ratios. Sooner or later, I'd see him closing, if not in Cleveland then maybe elsewhere? I dunno...
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby rookies and cream » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:33 am

I don't remember Betancourt getting a chance to close in '07. I believe they gave him a brief trial in '06, in which he failed, around the same time Carmona was also tried (and failed) in the role.
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby MTUCache » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:39 am

cordscords wrote:You do realize if you take out every pitchers worst 3 games, and everything improves. Removing games is the stupidest thing. They happened.


No. Not the stupidest thing.

In a weekly H2H league, there's a HUGE difference between a 3.50/1.50 pitcher who has a handful of bad outings (and gets bumped up to 5.00/2.00), and a pitcher who's a consistent 4.50/2.00. HUGE.

This is like the difference between a good match-game golfer and a good stroke-game player. If you're a match-game player (i.e. H2H) and you can limit your terrible performances to one or two holes (or games in this case), the rest of your round (or season) can still be very successful. A stroke-game player (i.e. roto) doesn't have that luxury.

I'd be much more willing to grab Borowski in a H2H league than in a roto, because you can't predict when those blowups will be. But, other than the two or three weeks where he kills your ERA/WHIP (where you may have already been losing), he's going to perform just as well as any other closer in the league (and be drafted 7-8 rounds later).

Not even close to the stupidest thing. Leagues based on long-term results are much different than those based on short-term results.
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Re: Borowski vs. Betancourt

Postby J.C.Fighter » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:42 am

AcidRock23 wrote:I find the game log feature can be pretty illuminating for looking at these sorts of questions:

Betancourt '07 game log

and, what the heck, let's look at JoBo too...

Borowski '07 game log

They both appear to have been adequate and Betancourt seems like a very small sample size to be saying things like 'he struggled when closing' like Cleveland seems to think. I guess that they are closer to the situation though? :-?

Draftwise, I'd rather take my chances at Betancourt for now as his stuff seems to translate more into lights out ratios. Sooner or later, I'd see him closing, if not in Cleveland then maybe elsewhere? I dunno...



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