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Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

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Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby bspel55 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:27 am

This is my first year running a league and I don't want to do standard Yahoo 5x5 so I tried to throw in a couple other things to make it better, but I have a few questions. This league is H2H btw.

1. Standard Yahoo rosters (2sp, 2rp, 3p) is that good or should I change those?

2. I added 4 categories to make it 7x7... Errors, Hits, Losses, and Holds, as well as making minimum IP 10. Is that high enough and are those categories good enough to make a deep league? I couldn't decide if I should use errors or fielding percentage...

3. If I were to make a 10x10, or just change the settings a little bit, what would you recommend? 10 would be the most I would do, and I doubt I would do 10x10.

Thanks for the help. If you need help please leave a link. Thanks!
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby Matthias » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:29 am

Not sure on roster settings; never done H2H. But you should rethink your categories.

I'm assuming the std 5x5 you're adding to is:
HR, R, RBI, SB, AVG
W, SV, ERA, WHIP, K

Both losses and holds are ok to add to these pitching categories, but not both. Holds encourages MRs, which is fine, but losses also discourage SPs. I would choose one or the other and then add a stat that favors starters. Going with L's and IP's would be a nice balance... you would encourage people to use pitchers while penalizing them for using bad ones.

Don't use defensive statistics. I've tried them and tried mixing them and tried juggling and they just don't work. Instead, I would add OBP as one of the categories. Not making an out is the most valuable thing a hitter can do so doing AVG and OBP sort of double-weights it, but not really since there are players who are good at one but not the other, and makes it interesting. For a seventh category, TB (Total Bases) could be ok. It's similar to hits, but then weighted for slugging.

Don't do 10x10. Just don't. It becomes impossible.
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby bspel55 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:21 pm

Lol ok I won't, I was just thinking about adding Singles, Doubles, and Triples.

But ya, here are my settings as they stand now, modified for your suggestions:
Batters - H, R, HR, RBI, SB, TB, AVG,
Pitchers - W, H, SV, K, ERA, WHIP, K/Walk
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby walkoffblast » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:29 pm

I run a 7x7 H2H league. You are getting closer to what we use. One thing you absolutely should change is having hits and avg. They are essentially the same thing. Very common mistake for some reason in the early stages of expanding beyond 5x5. I would use obp, which has some overlap but a defensible amount, instead of hits.

For pitching I am a little skeptical. I like to make the settings benefit quality pitching and then use the min innings pitched to force people to start enough pitchers. That way streaming is already taken out of the equation and there is no option just to load up on relievers which is exactly what I would do in your settings right now. I would, depending on the desired depth of your league, consider adding pitching slot(s) of some sort and bumping the min innings up in the 20-30 range (depending on how many and what pitching slots you add). Your pitching categories would work as is with higher min innings but personally I am not that big of a fan of counting k/bb with k and whip already as categories. I like losses not so much for its real value but it adds an interesting dynamic and is the king of anti streaming categories.

You sound like you might like to try an h2h points league at some point.
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby bspel55 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:53 pm

I changed stuff up a little again. I took out Hits and put in Walks. With Walks, AVG, and TB as categories I think it is basically pretty balanced.

Finally, should I take out K/W and just put in Walks? I'm starting to think that would be a good idea. And I'll talk to guys in the league about the anti-streaming stuff.
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby walkoffblast » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:16 pm

To me walks would be even worse. Whip to me factors walks heavily enough by itself. That is why I would shy away from walks and k/bb because I feel like you are already measuring these stats. Expanding the pitching categories is the tough one. A big factor for me in using losses and holds is that at least they do not overlap the other stats.

Is your league OBPhobic or something. I am not a fan of simply giving walks equal weight to your other hitting categories.
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby Matthias » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:33 pm

I agree. Walks shouldn't be a stand-alone category... they're useful when considered alongside batting average in OBP, but they don't tell you that much in isolation. You want your hitter to do two things: (1) get on base; (2) get extra bases. If they accomplish #1 by hitting .400 with 0 walks, that's great. If they accomplish #1 by hitting .000 but walking 4 out of every 10 at-bats, that's fine, too... although they won't be move along any runners.

How about adding Quality Starts instead of your K/BB or BB stat? That would give you:
W, Q/S, SV, HD, K, ERA, WHIP

Wins - Starter advantage; some MRs will hit 5-8 during the season
Q/S - All starters
SV - All closers
HD - All MRs
K - Starter-friendly, ok with relievers
ERA - Reliever friendly, stud starter ok, other starters unfriendly
WHIP - Same as ERA

Relievers would have the edge in 4 of the 7 categories; starters would have the edge in 3. It would force a balanced team without having to worry about streamers or reliever-only guys.

The way to think about categories you're making isn't, "Is this a good category" but rather, "How does this category fit with everything else; am I creating a situation where someone could win by playing a strategy instead of playing good players" because there's plenty of categories that are good that, in combination, create bad situations.
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby bspel55 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:42 pm

I'm talking with my league about OBP as a category, I don't know if they will want that or BB more.

All of that said, I would like to clear something up:

K/BB is a relief killer. I was looking at this and came across this stat:

Of the 25 pitchers with the WORST K/BB ratio:
6 of them had 30+ saves (Huston Street with 16)
3 of them had 10+ holds (well, Joba had 8)
14 of them are considered by yahoo to be relievers

So as it stands now, here are my pitching stats
W - Starters
HLD - Relief
SV - Relief
K - Starters
K/BB - Starters
ERA - Up for grabs on a week to week basis
WHIP - Same as ERA

IMO this is gonna force people to draft starters, which is the goal of this category.
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Re: Trying to run a league with moderate depth, need advice.

Postby walkoffblast » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:18 am

Actually you got some bad info. The lead in should read BEST instead of worst. Look it up.
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