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Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby Mayor Daley » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:46 am

No matter what he does, his name will always be linked to steroids. He knew what was going on.
A great commish would have quietly cleaned up the game from within. He did nothing.

Sometimes it's more about honor and dignity rather than the money.

I don't think of the word "great" when I hear the name Bud Selig.
And I sure as hell hope my kids never do.
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby MTUCache » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:29 am

byfrcp wrote:The job of a commissioner is to make the most money possible for the owners. Baseball has seen it's highest profits with Selig as commissioner. So therefor he is the best commissioner. Am I missing something?


The job of the commissioner reaches far beyond simply making money for the owners...

As I said before, the fact that baseball is making good money today is due to hundreds of factors which are completely out of Bud's influence. If you're willing to give him more than a sliver of credit for the current state of baseball, you're fooling yourself.

Being the commissioner during the most profitable time of baseball does not make one the best commissioner. It just happens to be the one bright spot on a resume that otherwise appears completely dismal. Like I said, a monkey could have had baseball making money for the last decade.

From a popularity standpoint, you could just as easily make an argument for Fay Vincent being the "best"
commissioner ever, and he lost his job by a vote of no-confidence from the owners. For that matter, Happy Chandler was another very positive commissioner, who's decisions had a much more positive impact on the game (pensions for players, integration of minorities, etc).
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby Amazinz » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:05 pm

MTUCache wrote:If you're willing to give him more than a sliver of credit for the current state of baseball, you're fooling yourself.

So who deserves the credit? Industry-wide growth does not explain all of the MLB's growth. I think the idea that any economic environment would allow a monkey to step in and achieve similar success is naive at best. Is the first renegotiation of the CBA without a work stoppage worth any praise at all? I don't know whether or not Selig is the best commissioner but I know that your slanted view that refuses to give any credit cannot possibly be accurate.
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby thedude » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:56 pm

Bud Selig could not do a thing about steroids without the Union's backing and many people in the union were opposed to testing. Was it worth a strike to get steroid testing 5 to 10 years earlier? That would have been much worse for the game than what happened. Bud's two biggest accomplishments were the union-management peace (many of you are probably too young to remember, but 15 years ago people were getting more and frustrated at the frequent work stoppages and baseball was hemorrhaging fans) and the creation of the wild card which has added more excitement to the end of the regular season and the playoffs.

Bud's biggest weakness, which he should be taking blame for, is the large drop in postseason ratings during his tenure. A lot of the reason for that is the general downward trend of all prosports ratings, but part of the blame lies with baseball.

(BTW the increase in scoring is negatively correlated with TV ratings)
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby jake_harv88 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:02 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:jakeharv....you wrote...

Finally there is the ever increase of ticket sales. Wanna know why ticket sales are up? Because of offense and the long ball. Wanna know why offense is ever increasing? BECAUSE OF STEROIDS!!! Is that good for the game? I think not. Selig has done nothing himself to increase ticket sales in...


If ticket sales are still increasing, despite steroid use...why isn't that good for baseball? People are still going to the games. Barry Bonds sells out stadiums all over the country. He attracts crowds. It would be bad for the game if people were boycotting. They aren't though...baseball is drawing bigger crowds than ever.

Teams like the Devil Rays, Royals, Marlins, and Pirates do nothing but take their money and run. Despite these teams having absolutely terrible records they continue to be the most profitable organizations in baseball.


This confused me. Those teams aren't the most profitable. The large markets teams are. And who is to say they aren't spending their luxury money? I'm not saying that they are, but how can you tell?



Bronx you really like to rip apart what I say dont you ;-D Fair enough, I'll defend...

Most of the reports I've seen show a lot of the small market teams being fairly profitable. Typically they take their revenue sharing money and pocket it while they constantly reduce their payrolls. Maybe the reports I've read are wrong, I dont know. As far as I know the Yankees have been losing money the past couple of seasons. If you believe otherwise I'd love to see a link...

Steroids attracting crowds is a good example of do the ends justify the means. Is it ok that steroids attracted fans to the game? Thats for the individual to decided. The one thing I will say is ticket sales seem to be increasing while the use of steroids in the game seems to be decreasing (at least thats the appearence), which is obviously promising...
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby KCollins1304 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:24 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:jakeharv....you wrote...

Finally there is the ever increase of ticket sales. Wanna know why ticket sales are up? Because of offense and the long ball. Wanna know why offense is ever increasing? BECAUSE OF STEROIDS!!! Is that good for the game? I think not. Selig has done nothing himself to increase ticket sales in...


If ticket sales are still increasing, despite steroid use...why isn't that good for baseball? People are still going to the games. Barry Bonds sells out stadiums all over the country. He attracts crowds. It would be bad for the game if people were boycotting. They aren't though...baseball is drawing bigger crowds than ever.

Teams like the Devil Rays, Royals, Marlins, and Pirates do nothing but take their money and run. Despite these teams having absolutely terrible records they continue to be the most profitable organizations in baseball.


This confused me. Those teams aren't the most profitable. The large markets teams are. And who is to say they aren't spending their luxury money? I'm not saying that they are, but how can you tell?



Bronx you really like to rip apart what I say dont you ;-D Fair enough, I'll defend...

Most of the reports I've seen show a lot of the small market teams being fairly profitable. Typically they take their revenue sharing money and pocket it while they constantly reduce their payrolls. Maybe the reports I've read are wrong, I dont know. As far as I know the Yankees have been losing money the past couple of seasons. If you believe otherwise I'd love to see a link...

Steroids attracting crowds is a good example of do the ends justify the means. Is it ok that steroids attracted fans to the game? Thats for the individual to decided. The one thing I will say is ticket sales seem to be increasing while the use of steroids in the game seems to be decreasing (at least thats the appearence), which is obviously promising...


A lot of the Yankee's income comes from the YES network, which isn't included in studies that say the Yankees are losing money.
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby jake_harv88 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:27 pm

Collins, thanks for the info. I did not know that. Is there a reason why it is not included?

That still does not refute the fact that teams like the marlins, and pirates pocket most of their cash instead of re-investing in the organization...
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby KCollins1304 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:34 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:Collins, thanks for the info. I did not know that. Is there a reason why it is not included?

That still does not refute the fact that teams like the marlins, and pirates pocket most of their cash instead of re-investing in the organization...


Yeah, I wasn't really disagreeing with that point. Cable networks are just a separate entity, it is misleading how people don't use it. I know the Red Sox own part or or all of NESN, and I doubt that is included either. As far is revenue sharing, I'm not sure if the cable networks are included with that but I don't think so.
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby jake_harv88 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:16 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
jake_harv88 wrote:Collins, thanks for the info. I did not know that. Is there a reason why it is not included?

That still does not refute the fact that teams like the marlins, and pirates pocket most of their cash instead of re-investing in the organization...


Yeah, I wasn't really disagreeing with that point. Cable networks are just a separate entity, it is misleading how people don't use it. I know the Red Sox own part or or all of NESN, and I doubt that is included either. As far is revenue sharing, I'm not sure if the cable networks are included with that but I don't think so.


Cool, nice info. The red own 80% of NESN ;-D

Coincidentally I just read this during one of my daily perusals of BP 2008:

Baseball Prospectus, p. 191 wrote:...But when a team's payroll is going to be less than 20% of its revenue sharing receipts...


This was with respect to the Florida Marlins.

Thank you BP for the many many random facts you have supplied me with ;-D
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Re: Bud Selig: best commissioner ever?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:48 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:]
Bronx you really like to rip apart what I say dont you ;-D Fair enough, I'll defend...

Most of the reports I've seen show a lot of the small market teams being fairly profitable. Typically they take their revenue sharing money and pocket it while they constantly reduce their payrolls. Maybe the reports I've read are wrong, I dont know. As far as I know the Yankees have been losing money the past couple of seasons. If you believe otherwise I'd love to see a link...


You're actually right. I was mistaken about the profits. I was taking assets like the YES Network into account, as KCollins mentioned. I actually have read that the Yankees are losing money, but when you factor in the YES Network, they still generate tons of revenue. My point was only that the big market teams still have a huge advantage over the small market teams.

Investing money into payroll isn't the only way these small market teams can use their revenue sharing money. If they were to invest into better scouting, etc. then that wouldn't show up on payroll, but it would still be benefiting the team. I'm not saying that this is the case in 100% of scenarios, but it is a possibility. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that just pocket the money, though, too.
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